What games are people playing??

[Westland]

In CW you have the Sherman Firefly which costs about 250pts compared to a Panther which costs 350pts. In CMBN you have the M10 which costs about 200pts. What i'm trying to say here is a Panther only force can be defeated and it is,more often than not.

Wrong!
The Panther cost more but have 0 points rarity.
Here the individual purchase price and rarity:

Achilles
Price:231 Points.
Rarity:1155

M10
Price:202
Rarity:606

Firefly
Price:242
Rarity:1210

Panther G Early
Price:422
Rarity:0

I can buy more Panther as you Firefly, M10, or Achilles.The M10 is useless against Panther frontal.
We can a 4000 points battle make. Forest and hills.I buy everything Panther G Early.You have no chance against me.
I have already tested it against other players.Most are trying to defeat the Panthers in close combat with mist.This works but only under heavy losses.

[raz_atoth]

Westland,you are 100% right in what you state above.Indeed,with rarity on and with an open map the axis player and his Panther swarm will have the upper hand by a wide margin.

However,this is just a particular case. Turn rarity off and suddenly the allies will have the upper hand,simply because they will afford to have roughly two Fireflies for each Panther the axis player has. Keep the rarity on,but play on a heavy bocage map or a heavy forested one and watch how your expensive panthers are blown into oblivion by cheap bazookas.

On the other hand,you have the same issues in CMx1,too. Play as the axis in 1941 against a KV-only force and see how this goes. Spend all your points on Tigers in 1942 and your opponent won't stand a chance.

Obviously,the game params. can be tweaked to give a side the advantage before the battle begins in both CMx1 and CMx2. It's definitely not just a CMx2 issue.
That's why,i guess, it's critical to discuss the details of the game with your opponent,to avoid any behavior that might be considered gamey as a Panther-only taskforce.

[NoxNoctum]

Well I'm not sure what is causing the decline (I know I'm a newbie around here but I've been at WaW and BoB and on the BFC forums for a while), but I'm actually sort of the opposite of the current trend. Although I enjoy CMBN and it definitely has aspects that are superior to CMBB, I frankly still find CMBB a better game, and much more fun to play. Not to mention the Ostfront is so much more interesting to me than Normandy.

Just as a quick example, I find urban battles to be a bit of a chore in CMBN. I think the way they are abstracted in CMBB is much more elegant.

I hope to play many games with you all on here, I should have started much earlier :/. (I was under the mistaken impression that theBlitz was a much less active community than WaW which led to me not really bothering to come here much)

[Westland]

However,this is just a particular case. Turn rarity off and suddenly the allies will have the upper hand,simply because they will afford to have roughly two Fireflies for each Panther the axis player has. Keep the rarity on,but play on a heavy bocage map or a heavy forested one and watch how your expensive panthers are blown into oblivion by cheap bazookas.

In CMx1, the maps but are wider and larger for 3000 and 5000 points battles.The Quickbattle maps are randomly created always by the computer.I find this better than getting the same maps in CMX2.
Always the same maps you can see earlier whether or not to buy a Panther.
The conquest areas are better in CMx1.These flags I found better.This ominous green areas not in CMx2.
Of course you can to agree with opponents to buy no panther and Tiger (Tiger in CMFI).
But that would be historicall incorrect.Panther 6000 were built.They were numerous like the Pz.IV 1944.The most Panther on the Western Front have failed through air strikes.The only weapon against Tigers and Panthers were allied air strikes.
The Allied player would have to must so many aircraft.That would be realistic.
Is still a big minus point for CMx2:There are no anti-aircraft guns!

---

I hope to play many games with you all on here, I should have started much earlier :/. (I was under the mistaken impression that theBlitz was a much less active community than WaW which led to me not really bothering to come here much)

You're already 4 years at "The Blitz" and only have one battle made?

[raz_atoth]

In CMx1, the maps but are wider and larger for 3000 and 5000 points battles.The Quickbattle maps are randomly created always by the computer.I find this better than getting the same maps in CMX2.

Each approach has it's pros and cons. It's true,the maps for QBs are auto-generated in CMx1,thus you're guaranteed you'll not fight on the same map twice. On the other hand,you won't always get quality maps. I believe we can both agree that an average map designed by a human will always be better than an average map randomly generated.
In CMx2 you don't have randomly generated maps but you have a couple of hundreds maps (about 800,CMBN+CW+CMFI ) from which QBs can be generated,all hand-drawn,so to speak.

I find the 'Huge' maps to be big enough.I haven't really came across maps in medium/large battles which weren't big enough to allow complex maneuvers.

Always the same maps you can see earlier whether or not to buy a Panther.

As i stated above,there are 800 maps and that's without counting the maps created by third party designers. You can also count,if you wish,the maps that will come with Market Garden/Bagration which probably will be released this year. I don't think this qualifies as playing on the 'same maps'. Obviously,the number of existing maps is a limitation which doesn't exists in CMx1. But it's a limitation which you'll hardly notice.

Yes,your opponent can see the map thus decide if he will buy panthers or not. But this works both ways. Having the ability to preview the map before the troops are purchased,means you can choose the right troops for the job without just guessing how the terrain will look like.

The conquest areas are better in CMx1.These flags I found better.This ominous green areas not in CMx2.

To be honest i haven't yet decided which system works better.The idea behind it is the same,the implementation is different. In both cases you need to secure an area in order to gain victory points.

Of course you can to agree with opponents to buy no panther and Tiger (Tiger in CMFI).
But that would be historicall incorrect.Panther 6000 were built.They were numerous like the Pz.IV 1944.The most Panther on the Western Front have failed through air strikes.The only weapon against Tigers and Panthers were allied air strikes.

Your point is valid. However,this behavior is not limited to just CMx2. If i'm playing a CMFI game i always agree with my opponent that no Tigers will be purchased by the axis player in MEs. Just like i agreed with my opponents in the good ol' days of CMx1 that the russian player will not purchase KVs in '41 or the axis player Tigers in '42. In both cases it's historical incorrect.

The Allied player would have to must so many aircraft.That would be realistic.
Is still a big minus point for CMx2:There are no anti-aircraft guns!

In a recent game,i had two Panthers + 1 Marders destroyed by an enemy plane with a single bomb. You can,if that's what you wish, go with a heavy air-force,in CMx2 ,just like it is possible in CMx1. And in some cases it will pay off. But,as you no doubt know,as it works the same in CMx1,airplanes are a gamble. And quite an expensive one. It can drop a bomb in the middle of the enemy tanks column and win the day.It can drop the bomb in the middle of your tanks column Or,it can drop the bomb in some remote corner of the map and waste all those precious points.
If you like to gamble,in both CMx1 and CMx2 you can. Gamers usually don't like to gamble. Not in this way,at least. You won't see as many planes as it would be historically accurate simply because people will more often than not prefer to purchase assets they can directly control,not because it's a game limitation. This holds true in both CMx1 and CMx2

[Westland]

Your point is valid. However,this behavior is not limited to just CMx2. If i'm playing a CMFI game i always agree with my opponent that no Tigers will be purchased by the axis player in MEs. Just like i agreed with my opponents in the good ol' days of CMx1 that the russian player will not purchase KVs in '41 or the axis player Tigers in '42. In both cases it's historical incorrect

In 1941, KV tanks were destroyed by Ju-87 and 8,8 cm AA gun.It is only the 8,8 cm AA gun very expensive in CMx1.Just why is it so?
The 8,8cm AA gun was built over 20 000 times.The 7,5cm AT Gun was built 23 000 times.The 8,8 cm AA gun costs but 192 points. The 7,5cm and 5,0cm AT gun 76 points.The problem is, that was made too expensive the 8,8 cm.
The KV Tank is 1941, however, too cheap at the price.
In 1942, there were only 20 Tigers on the eastern front.Nevertheless, it is relatively cheap to buy.These are the errors in CMx1.
To choose no tiger in CMFI I agree.

[NoxNoctum]

However,this is just a particular case. Turn rarity off and suddenly the allies will have the upper hand,simply because they will afford to have roughly two Fireflies for each Panther the axis player has. Keep the rarity on,but play on a heavy bocage map or a heavy forested one and watch how your expensive panthers are blown into oblivion by cheap bazookas.

In CMx1, the maps but are wider and larger for 3000 and 5000 points battles.The Quickbattle maps are randomly created always by the computer.I find this better than getting the same maps in CMX2.
Always the same maps you can see earlier whether or not to buy a Panther.
The conquest areas are better in CMx1.These flags I found better.This ominous green areas not in CMx2.
Of course you can to agree with opponents to buy no panther and Tiger (Tiger in CMFI).
But that would be historicall incorrect.Panther 6000 were built.They were numerous like the Pz.IV 1944.The most Panther on the Western Front have failed through air strikes.The only weapon against Tigers and Panthers were allied air strikes.
The Allied player would have to must so many aircraft.That would be realistic.
Is still a big minus point for CMx2:There are no anti-aircraft guns!

---

I hope to play many games with you all on here, I should have started much earlier :/. (I was under the mistaken impression that theBlitz was a much less active community than WaW which led to me not really bothering to come here much)

You're already 4 years at "The Blitz" and only have one battle made?

I registered 4 years ago because someone I played wasn't on the WaW ladder.

[raz_atoth]

In 1941, KV tanks were destroyed by Ju-87 and 8,8 cm AA gun.It is only the 8,8 cm AA gun very expensive in CMx1.Just why is it so?
The 8,8cm AA gun was built over 20 000 times.The 7,5cm AT Gun was built 23 000 times.The 8,8 cm AA gun costs but 192 points. The 7,5cm and 5,0cm AT gun 76 points.The problem is, that was made too expensive the 8,8 cm.
The KV Tank is 1941, however, too cheap at the price.
In 1942, there were only 20 Tigers on the eastern front.Nevertheless, it is relatively cheap to buy.These are the errors in CMx1.
To choose no tiger in CMFI I agree.

Again,what you say is,in itself correct.
But just to get back to your original statement: "CMBN/CW/FI is worse than CMx1. The reason: You can win every battle with Panther and much artillery."

What i'm trying to say here is both CMx1 and CMx2 can be abused in certain situations. You can lose the battle from the start on an open-flat map in CMx1 -if you opponents purchases just KVs in '41 or Tigers in '42 just as well as you can lose it in CMx2 if your opp goes for a panther only force.

All in one,CMx2 is by no means 'worse' than CMx1. There are certain areas in which CMx1 does better at the moment. Overall,my opinion is CMx2 is a vastly superior game.

[jawsconan]

Hi,

As far as I am concerned, i played a few games with CMBN.
I tried to like it, but i can't.
For many reasons i already explained in other posts (artillery, duration of games, micro-management...), i stopped it.

And if real life would give me more free time to play, there is no doubt i will play CM1 (May be in a few month.). I missed this game and my habitual opponents. It gave me so many intense hours playing it. For some intense games i played many years ago, i can remember their review process !
CMBN or CMFI can't give me this !

Greetings.
Jawsconan

[raz_atoth]

That's perfectly fine. Some of us like CMx1 better,some-including myself-believe the new engine is superior. Nothing wrong about that.

What i can recommend to all of you still in doubt,is to try the demos first,then decide if the new games work for you better.