Medics in Cold War - questions

[John Given]

Also I was thinking it is not worth transfering disrupt platoons too far from main lines?

But why not?

Exactly - the field hospitals in this case, would be far too remote to really help in a game sense, but they are realistic, and help 'tie in' the whole 'medical chain of command.' Plus I'm sure you and warhorse want to whip up some sweet units skins for them.

One thing I left out - some armies would have nearly non-existent medical care. I'm not certain, but I've read that the Japanese in WWII had very little medical care compared to western armies at the time. However, I believe even the most primitive armies fighting under the most brutal conditions could scrounge up some basic medics, IF the formation is large enough. Perhaps that should be taken into account if oob's for the various armies will include medical units.

As for Field Hospitals, I was just thinking 24SP (right?) is a max one hex can accommodate, so there is no way to simulate a hospital of 150 beds. Say a hospital is 5SP, there'd be room for only 20 SP ie 10 squads ie some 60 men only.

I hadn't envisioned the larger field hospital to be more than 8sp's, probably not more than 6, as I was taking into account that ambulances and wounded would be occupying the hex as well. Getting a dreaded 'unit violates stacking limitations' message when trying to get into the hospital would be...like trying to check into a hospital in real life, and that's far too realistic for my taste.

Just my 2 cents.

[Panther]

Have you looked at the commissars in the Russian OOB?

They operate in the same way, affecting only Morale (in theory).

Jason Petho

Hi Jason, i think they should have no other function for the troops. The political ideology was always present in their Armies. Have you other ideas?

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I've been thinking about how to add medical logistics into JTCS, a platoon scale game, and here's my thoughts so far.

As for motivation for their existence, they would not be considered to have any wounded recover his wounds and return to front lines, but rather, removing the need for a shot-out disrupted platoon to transfer their wounded to locations where medical care was given, thus freeing them to return to their duties at front lines.

IMHO this logic works within the scale of the game.

First, here's what I found about our TO&E during WW II regarding medical care.

Companies each had a Medical Squad of 1 progressing to 2 Medic NCO + 5 medics, responsible for transfering the wounded to a Dressing Station.




A Dressing Station would have a morale boost effect of that of a level 3 commander. If possible, it would be possible to transport it with a truck, each load/unload would be 100 AP.





Normally there was one dressing station per Battalion. A Dressing Station had a Doctor and a few additional medics, and was able to provide the basic medical services such as stopping bleeding, removing splinters, giving pain reduces.

They did not perform surgery, but prepared the more severely wounded to be transfered to Regimental Main Dressing Station.





A Main Dressing Station would have a morale boost of a level 5 commander. If possible, it would be possible to transport it with a truck, each load/unload would be 100 AP.

Also, a Main Dressing Station would have 3 Ambulances, one for each of its Bns. Ambulance would be a transport with negative VP value.

For a Ambulance bitmap, I would ask Mike if he would consider his Bus bitmap with Red Cross insignia loaned to this purpose...



Regimental Main Dressing Stations stood between the Dressing Stations and Divisional Field Hospitals.

Initially, each Division (later 2 per Bde) had one Field Hospital, where the wounded were transfered from Dressing Stations. A Field Hospital was operated by a Medical Coy of 8 Doctors, 3 Medical Platoons, and 3 Supplies Platoons. A Field Hospital had 150 to 200 beds, and had from 8 to 16 Ambulances. For the purposes of game scale, these would not fit in.

Those requiring extensive care where then transfered to Military Hospitals, inland. For the purposes of the scale, these would not fit in.

As for "Medics", here's the Medics Squad, one for each Coy, three per Bn. In order for them to have a visible effect in the game, I would have them simulate the morale boost of a level 2 commander.



For those who wish not to micro manage, the logical replacement would be a Medical Platoon per Bn. These would be equal to a level 3 commander.



My bitmaps are not much, I hope I can improve them a bit...


So, about the set up, what do you think?

Also, I would like to have help for the platoon files of each of these.

Dressing Stations
- Morale boost
- No command boost
- Transportable, cost 100AP
- No firing
- No spotting
- Negative VP value

Medic Sqd, Pltn
- Morale boost
- No command boost
- No firing
- No spotting
- Negative VP value

Ambulance would be like truck, only with negative value.
I would then ask if Jason would encrypt them for EF:FB, I could then have a version of one of the scenarios with these medical capabilites available for both sides.

I´m very impressed!I like what i see and i think that´s a good way to work with them. Would you allow me to use your bitmaps for my game? I would set them into the platoon-files and try to build a test scenario.

[Crossroads]

Certainly, Stefan!

[Panther]

And yes, I would enjoy a game Panther! Pick a scenario (any size is ok) and send it over.

P.S. Big Ivan is right about one thing - CW would be easier to understand for our english speaking players if there were some translations made - I thought that the unit text file would be easiest to translate, and it would not be all that hard. Any plans to do it?

Well, your mail arrived me. I will pick up one scenario and send it to you.

Yes, i understand your wish. I´m very sorry, because i´m not the guy who worked on the program-translation. I will try to re-activate my partner. But i can´t give you any promises.

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Certainly, Stefan!

Great, and thanks in advance!

[Crossroads]

There might be a problem with the medic sqd and pltn bitmaps though, I just did a quick hack with them and just realised I had a wrong shade of white when erasing their weapons and stuff. I'll get back to them tomorrow.

[Panther]

There might be a problem with the medic sqd and pltn bitmaps though, I just did a quick hack with them and just realised I had a wrong shade of white when erasing their weapons and stuff. I'll get back to them tomorrow.

Ok, no problem.

R
Stefan

[Panther]

Also I was thinking it is not worth transfering disrupt platoons too far from main lines?

But why not?

Exactly - the field hospitals in this case, would be far too remote to really help in a game sense, but they are realistic, and help 'tie in' the whole 'medical chain of command.' Plus I'm sure you and warhorse want to whip up some sweet units skins for them.

Good point. The question is how we can "use" it in the game engine? We should test them.

As for Field Hospitals, I was just thinking 24SP (right?) is a max one hex can accommodate, so there is no way to simulate a hospital of 150 beds. Say a hospital is 5SP, there'd be room for only 20 SP ie 10 squads ie some 60 men only.

I hadn't envisioned the larger field hospital to be more than 8sp's, probably not more than 6, as I was taking into account that ambulances and wounded would be occupying the hex as well. Getting a dreaded 'unit violates stacking limitations' message when trying to get into the hospital would be...like trying to check into a hospital in real life, and that's far too realistic for my taste.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, maybe you´re right here. I could imagine the Hospitals as fixed points. But i think for the gameplay the smaller field units are more suitable. Any suggestions?

[Crossroads]

OK, tried to do a better job with bitmaps this time. Unfortunately, I am not good at it. But this is a start right.

Ambulance Truck:


Medical Squad / Medical Platoon:


Stefan,

Attached are the bitmaps and bittypes for the said units (Dressing Station, Main Dressing Station, Ambulance, Medical Sqd/Pltn). The bittypes are probably out of whack as I can't test them before the files are encrypted.

If you could proceed in creating the platoonXX.oob values for these guys, I could in turn ask Jason to encrypt them for the EF:FB. Then I could test them as well.

I just noticed the Red Cross is on a square white background on ambulances, I will continue on the bitmaps more later on to improve them further. This is again a quick hack having had like an hour to work with them.

[John Given]

It's getting there, battle kat; Only think I would add is maybe a large medical insignia / red cross on the roof of the truck - to discourage airstrikes. (but is doing so historically accurate? Maybe it's overkill?) The ambulances in Cold War also have the red cross on the roof, come to think of it.

P.S. I love the medic skins.

Posted by Panther - Yesterday 11:29 PM Well, maybe you´re right here. I could imagine the Hospitals as fixed points. But i think for the gameplay the smaller field units are more suitable. Any suggestions?

Yes, the smaller field dressing stations are certainly more useful, because there are 1. more of them 2. much closer to the front. Basically, everything battle kat has suggested makes good sense to me.

Posted by Panther - Yesterday 11:29 PM Yes, i understand your wish. I´m very sorry, because i´m not the guy who worked on the program-translation. I will try to re-activate my partner. But i can´t give you any promises.

No hurry Stefan - just thought it should be pointed out.

[Crossroads]

I've read further into this, and it seems we could consider Divisional Field Hospitals into OOB after all.

As medical organizations gained experience of how to operate most efficiently, they decided to divide these Field Hospitals into two sub-organisations, as it became evident early access to surgery was a key factor in saving lives.

Field Hospital / A was operating nearer the front lines, had 50 beds, and was responsible for urgent surgical operations, that should not be postponed.

Field Hospital / B was operating further from the front lines, and was where the recovering patients and less severely wounded were recovering. It had 150 beds.

Based on this, we could consider these Field Hospital / A -type of fixed locations to be a part of the game scale?