Observations froma CW-Europe Tester

[John Given]

I've been playing CS since 1998 and this is the first time that I have seen what you are describing in 15 years.

Hey John, I was myself also puzzled when that glitch affected a game I was in, years ago. I mentioned it on the boards, and Hawk Kriegsman said that it's a known glitch, and had an 'evil twin' - but for the life of me I can't think of what the other glitch was. :anyone?: I think it was some kind of deal where no action points were deducted.

Here's a few more weird and rare glitches (or purposely coded?)

a. If you toggle the 'dig in' command for infantry, it can draw op-fire. Weird.

b. If an engineer lays smoke, it can trigger op-fire.

c. An enemy tank with a passenger is beyond the 'hard' attack range, but within the 'soft' range. Now lets say you shoot at the passenger (an infantry platoon on a tank) with a *large* soft factor. The sheer number of 'soft' factors can destroy the tank platoon. Very weird, and it's only happened to me once.

There are probably other glitches out there that I'm not even aware of.

As far as your original point, if the AI regarding medics is not working the way it should, I agree that that is something we need to look at. Sorry if i came across as curt earlier.

And Warhorse -

So maybe they should not be used on a scenario targeted for vs-AI play. AI will use them as Leaders I am sure.

Yes, that's what i was thinking as well. Kind of a shame though. Maybe it's just me but I wouldn't really mind the computer using medics this way, since it would likely keep them near the front where they belong.

[Big Ivan]

Hey John,

No you didn't come on as curt, in fact I thought your comments were spot on!

BTW thanks for the follow up. I have experienced the dig in and smoke glitches but not the tank with passengers yet. By large soft attack factor I assume you mean direct fire cannons of the 105mm size or larger. I wonder if that would also happen with a quad 20mm or .50-cal AA weapon also?!

As for the dig and/or smoke it seems kind of realistic to me. When digging in its movement of the troops. When placing smoke its technically firing.

At any rate, I'll kind of have to watch this medic issue when designing scenarios. I think it was said that these units should be sparse in a scenario and that's probably a good idea.

I also wonder about civilians too? Would they have the same effect? I haven't played any scenarios with the civilians but the design prospect has intrigued me! However, civilians are not leader types so most likely its not the same effect...

Cheers!
Ivan the Big

[John Given]

Hey John;

By large soft attack factor I assume you mean direct fire cannons of the 105mm size or larger. I wonder if that would also happen with a quad 20mm or .50-cal AA weapon also?!

I seem to recall it was either Jason Petho or Hawk Kriegsman who said that when you attack a tank with the rider, say a Pz V, The computer is 'tricked' into thinking that the 13 'hard' defense factor is now a 13 'soft' defense. So if the attacking 'anti-personnel' weapon could hurt a unit with a soft defense of 13 (in this example) then the answer is yes.

This also raises the question of whether the armor facing is nullified when being attacked this way. It would also seem that more thin skinned vehicles with say, an armor of 6, could be killed very easily like this. Fortunately, light tanks can't carry passengers, but early war medium tanks often had defense factors of 6 or so.

Moral: if you try to have your tanks 'run the gauntlet' with enemy mortars or artillery staring you down, you stand to lose a lot more than just your tank's passengers. Thankfully, it's a rare glitch, but technically one that's always ready to strike.

I also wonder about civilians too? Would they have the same effect?

I played a DG- Vietnam scenario that had them, and the computer AI with them seemed just fine regarding movement and retreats.

[Panther]

Stephan & Mike,

I know you are both busy but I'm persistent because I don't want to get this one lost.

I pray there is a fix for it, for the CW-Europe universe and I believe you gents are the best medics for it.
Cheers!!

John

Hi John,

i needed a little bit more time as i thought but now i have nearly finished the medics.

I played the scenario and i agree when you play against the AI it was not a good solution. I think when you play H2H it´s not a greater problem because you guide your troops and use your assign opportunity fire control system.

Now i have changed the medic structure as follow: only the doc´s are leaders, the medics and lazaretts/hospitals should work as HQ´s, transport units (ambulances) are normal units, but all with negative points.

I think it is a better solution as the first. Some scenarios doesn´t run now, they need a revising. Sorry, that´s life. The update will coming soon.

R
Stefan

[Big Ivan]

Hi Stephan,

I think that fix may be better than the current standard. If they function as transports/HQ's then I think the play will be cleaner. As for the doctors I think its a good idea to keep the leader structure and see how it plays out.

I'm looking forward to the update! I'll also most likely tweak that scenario a bit to make it a little more playable against the A/I. But there is only so much one can do, we all know the A/I is not that good.

Cheers!

Ivan the Big

[John Given]

I still think it would be cool to have medivac helicopters added to the oob - no special abilities, but 'attached' to medics in the oob (attached when you actually design a scenario with them, that is).

I like the idea of hospital ships in the game as well ( no game function except transport and maybe spotting).

But here is something I really want to see - some more cold-war nations added.

I would love to see Cuba, Angola, South Africa, El Salvador, Honduras, Panama, Venezuela, Columbia, and Argentina. What do you think? Is it possible to have a 'generic' NATO and a 'generic' PACT oob? All we would do is add the flag and a few odds and ends and it's done. Probably not that easy though.

And I'm assuming the minor nations of europe are already added? Hadn't checked in a while. Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania and Greece come to mind. I mentioned to Steffan that a 'Prague Spring' scenario could be a lot of fun.

currently, it's not really possible to re-enact the Cuban Bay of Pigs invasion, the Cuban-Angola-South Africa conflict, the El Salvador conflict in the 80's, the Panama invasion, also in the 80's, and pretty much any battle in tropical regions.

What are the chances of these things ever being added? I realize it's a lot of work, but I am curious nonetheless.

Thanks in advance for the replies.

[Big Ivan]

Hey John,

Good ideas on the future of CW-Europe.

While I am not to sure what the medic copters and hospital ships would offer in game turns, I think your comments on new countries and a generic country OOB's bode well.

I envision some interesting scenarios with the new countries. Like the Falkland Islands which although primarily a naval engagement, had some interesting ground matchups with the Argentinians and Brits on Goose Green! Also a Grenada scenario would be interesting with Cubans and US Marines. The tropic terrain issue is a slight problem but using the Med terrain base and a bit of imagination, it may work.

Its interesting to speculate where this mod can be taken with a little bit of work and more time to make it happen.

Cheers!
Ivan the Big

[junk2drive]

Years ago I made a mod for Divided Ground with the Vietnam mod to change flags and markers to Cuba and a scenario with the USA invading during the Cuban Missile Crisis. I used Scuds as the objective and had civilians both armed and unarmed for a twist. No one seemed interested.

[Warhorse]

Hey Paul, yeah you and I playtested that one, remember?! Wyatt just put a bunch of country's in the new exe's we are working on, none of those though, as they aren't Europe, but, there are still some Bad-guy slots I could add in maybe, if bits are there.

[Panther]

Well,

there are a lot of news in the posts. I like the idea with the medic heli´s too! Hospital ships ... i don´t know if they should be a part in a game like the CS series or if we "need" them.

Interesting points with the new nations. But in the existing CWE i would like to see nations like Austria, Denmark, Norway, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Greece, Turkey, Yugoslavia. I self can´t insert them into the exe, maybe my partner Geraldino would do it, i don´t know.

Events like Prague 1968 sounds great but we would need this nations under the NATO control.

I have an older version with a lot of different nations, partially i worked on it many years ago (Lebanon 82-85 = Israel/Syria, Iran/Irak).

  All nations.bmp (Size: 485.22 KB / Downloads: 12)

I/we could work at some conflicts, but first i will "finish" the works for CWE.

R
Stefan