Updated Normandy'44_Alt (third time, 13 AUG)

[Liquid_Sky]

I used to use the HQ organization auto movement on the last Normandy campaign I played, but I stopped for some reason or other. All I remember is I didn't like it for some reason. Might have had something to do with air interdiction stopping the entire convoy when something disrupted....or perhaps the weird twisty roads messed it up.

All in all, I don't mind moving them manually, I tend to move my units by division, and keep my units grouped by HQ..making it fairly easy to find them. (after the first few days, anyways)

[Elxaime]

About 35 turns in as Germans and four thoughts:

Obviously a key early issue is whether the Allies get off the beaches sooner rather than later. There is skill but also some luck involved. If they get off sooner, perhaps even sooner than historically, the Germans are in deep, deep trouble. But of course it can also go the other way. That said, assuming a historically similar Allied successful landing:

- it seems very very tough for the Germans to entrench a line. I have had units digging for 15-20 turns in place and still not even an improved position. Understanding there is some random factor involved, perhaps this has been overly randomized. An entire position can melt away, unhinging the line, because the units there are unlucky and spend ten turns failing to entrench

- the stacking limit of 1400 permits massive Allied mega assault stacks which can roll over the Germans until kingdom come. Not sure if this doesn't need some tweaking, as there is really no German counter aside from a mega stack which is very hard to put together early on the west side of the beach head

- Allied interdiction, despite the idea that should mainly act to delay, is doing quite well destroying German units entirely, have lost 15-20 of the smaller units vaporized. You have a devil's choice the first two days, since it is either road march in daylight or the Allies capture half the map

- the German 30th Flak attached to Army Group B can't be re-attached and is doomed therefore to eternal low fuel status, which is rough since the guns often have to be used in the front lines

- German engineers seem to have greatly reduced chances of blowing bridges (either that or I have just been very unlucky). It takes 3-4 tries usually to blow a heavy bridge, which you have to do before the Allies can see you (since any engineer gets blasted with air strikes once spotted); as a result of the inability to blow bridges, the Allies can race ahead faster than ever

Just some thoughts.

[Volcano Man]

The only thing I changed from this list from the previous version was the allied air interdiction. ;)

I don't get it, I am getting conflicting reports here -- on the one hand I am told that the Germans have it too easy, and now the Germans seem to be on the stinky end of the stick. What gives?

I can certainly attach the 30th FLAK to 8th Army, that is easy enough to do. However, the question is whether they are doomed to low supply/detached status because of their attachment to Army Group B, or because their own HQ is not present on the map until the 8th of June or so? There are plenty of other units attached to Army Group B without this issue I think (IIRC, like the security and coastal units).

As for engineers, it has been like that before if I am not mistaken. I want it to take several attempts to blow up a bridge -- this doesn't represent them blowing it up repeatedly, rather, the time it takes to do it right once it happens (if it does). Assigning more engineers to the task will increase this likelyhood, and I like it like that (I hated the single German engineers roaming the map blowing every bridge). Plus it allows the possibility that the allies can capture some bridges before the Germans are able to blow them up.

[Liquid_Sky]

The 300+ engineer battalions will almost always blow a bridge. The 120-160 man companies will fail most of the time. I have never been able to blow every bridge between UTAH and OMAHA, but I do get pretty close. I suspect this game I caught my opponent by surprise, because my engineers remained untouched the first turn....but he sure punished them afterwards.

Normandy is really two games in one. Pre-Storm and Post-Storm. Before the Storm, the Allies come ashore and can really put some pressure on the Germans. Especially the British, who have a multitude of tanks. The arrival of the 12th SS division and 21st Panzer division are not enough to stretch and hold the British back near the beaches.

What I do is use the ants...(anything with E or F morale) and spread them out. Retreat them one hex a turn, and try to have them every second hex with an extra unit behind them. If the allies are slow, I use the SS to try to hold the fields in front of Caen. If they are super aggressive, I fill Caen with the SS, (which has a 50 supply source), and use 21st Panzer to fight a slow retreat. The allies cannot surround Caen, and push inland at the same time.

Even so...it is a tough fight in the early game for the Germans....As for digging in, the percentage is 5% in the parameter file. That means it is 15% for a battalion...even more for engineers. Single companies only dig in by fluke. I usually use the many useless small units to dig in while my main units shoot. I don't try and dig in a line ala Russia.

The interdiction is a pain. I find that any unit with 4 guns/afv's in it (or less) is prone to instant vaporization sooner or later while it moves along the road. I do try to group my units into battalions to avoid this, but some of them don't allow it. A unit will move over 100 hexes from the bottom of the map to reach the front....that is 100 checks for interdiction. With the percentage set at 45%, modified by amount of movement spent/size of unit...or however he does it.....it probably means that units will be hit a fair number of times before they reach the front. I have had units get hit multiple times in one move.

THE STORM. Somewhere around 120 turns, the storm hits. It pretty much puts an end to all combat. Units will still maneuver (one hex a turn) and wherever they meet the enemy, will define the front line. For the next 30-40 turns, there will be no air interdiction, and 20 turns of storm (at least, probably more). During this time, German reinforcements will race up the highways (untouched by weather and interdiction) while the front line digs in. As well, all units recover up to 90% (or more) strength, regardless of how beaten up they were.

After the storm, the Germans and Allies will be completely dug in to TRENCH level.....perhaps with some bunkers too (that rule didn't exist last time I played). That is when the tide turns...

Most of my observations/complaints about German supremacy come from viewing the game after the Storm. When my Germans are dug in bocage to 90% defence. When assaulting and mass fire from tanks/artillery ruled the battlefield.

Oh...the Flak thing was kind of annoying, but I just parked them in Caen in my last game, and waited for Army Group B to enter the map. (Early July, I believe). In my current game, I am spreading them around to slow his armour car incursions behind my lines, so they probably wont live that long.

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I just had a wild thought...perhaps the allies should have some fatigue when they hit the beaches? (say 100?) Maybe for the first couple of days? Seems somewhat strange that after all that time in the ships that they are fresh for combat...and this may encourage the allies to hold from pushing to far while they recover fatigue...especially during the second night.

Maybe not for the americans on Omaha...as they will gain a fair bit of fatigue just trying to get off the beach.

[Elxaime]

Just curiously, how do German players typically approach Cherbourg? Defend to the last with the three divisions that start up there? Or pull everyone out south? I usually try to follow a Fuhrer order policy and defend Cherbourg as historically. The terrain is decent and you have a nice Festung at the end. Ideally you can tie up a US corps plus for quite a while...

[Liquid_Sky]

I leave the e/f quality stuff and pull out the rest. The Fuhrer order didn't come until July so I don't feel bad.

[Elxaime]

I leave the e/f quality stuff and pull out the rest. The Fuhrer order didn't come until July so I don't feel bad.

Actually, I think Cherbourg was among those slated for prolonged defense in the German basic planning. I recall June 15-16 or so for the order to prepare a defense line across the neck of land. Cherbourg had more or less fallen by the end of June.

Good advice though. I think I will give the Festung approach a try and let you know how it works out!

[Liquid_Sky]

Hmm..you could be right. I remember that I managed to get them all out before the historical Fortress order though.

You need to pull out 91st Air and 243rd inf to hold a line...or else your non-history following opponent will streak south. As it was, I was pushed back farther then the allies got historically, and that was with most of the bridges blown. The storm solved that problem (along with the 2nd panzer to shore up the left flank). I definitely save the Sturm and MG unit. The tanks can die, though.

Remember, he is in no hurry to take Cherbourg..it will give him nothing useful...and he can always take it with division #16 that lands at UTAH in late July if he wants...so there is no guarantee it will hold up any of his units either. He could even use the para's which are withdrawn July 1st...

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

I hate interdiction as well. I have had units hit multiple times in one move as you did in Alamein, way back by Alexandria when the front was up at Tobruk. Also, in the big campaign in Danube, the results were the same. For the first one, I have always advocated redoing the air game by having a button that could show where the squadrons are located and ranges for each aircraft with zones of operation for them to be assigned as cap, ground attack, interdiction etc etc. For the latter, I thought it was too much considering there would be so many aircraft in the air and the same revised air componant added. I know it would add more units for the squadrons plus the bases for them to operate from or transfer between or moved forward or backward depending on the frontline in the actual ongoing game.

[Volcano Man]

Well, personally, (talking about N44_Alt) I think the small halftrack units do get wiped out by air interdiction pretty quickly, but that is a forgone conclusion (they will get wiped out anyway). Infantry and tank units are a bit more durable, and they really get hit to a point that you may slow down your mad rush down the road, but that is about it -- and that is really the point here.

I mean like I said, on the one hand the complaint was that the Germans have too much of an advantage in N44, so I just boosted the interdiction probability to the point that it occasionally (rather than rarely) happens. ;)