The Competition & Teaser Thread

[GerryM]

Thanks David for posting. I like the side-on graphics. I also like the side stripe idea. Any feature that helps find units on the map without clicking all over the place is good.

I assume we can change between the graphic choices in-game?

Gerry

[Strela]

Thanks David for posting. I like the side-on graphics. I also like the side stripe idea. Any feature that helps find units on the map without clicking all over the place is good.

I assume we can change between the graphic choices in-game?

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

One click and they change on the fly. Very easy to get extra information on your troops with this feature.

You have the same choices at the next highest zoom out level (Level 2 - standard PzC hex size) with NATO, Side On & Top down. They are small though...!

Here are examples at Level 2 Zoom Out;










And at the highest level of zoom out it is only stylised NATO symbols




The nice thing is that the game will remember your choice of graphics for each zoom level so you can select your preferred look without having to change it in settings constantly.

David

[76mm]

David,

Thanks for all of the info. Any chance that Tiller will set up his own forum at some point to deal with his games, similar to what Matrix has done? Seems like it would help generate some buzz, and I wouldn't think it would be that hard in this day and age?

[Xaver]

Yep, the zoom levels like nice maybe the only one that looks a little strange is the first one with the portrait images and this made me think in the PzC "graphical unit icons" i dont know if you can use this from PzC but with bigger size, you have the unit silhouette in black and could be a 4th option.

Well, this is an old problem with Tiller games, no official forum, there are a lot of forums and sometimes to find info i feel like playing minecraft hehehe.

Have an official forum where all guys working in Tiller titles can post and made our life easier when we try find info

[jimcrowley]

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is the 1st - 3rd & 4th Platoons of the 6th Company of the 4th PzGr Regiment. Though not shown on the front, the II Battalion designation is shown on the OB on the back. Highlighting the II Battalion organisation is also easy.


David

David, firstly thanks for the steady flow of information.

In regard to the above images I confess to being somewhat confused. I can't tie up the information on the fronts and backs with your description.

The second image is obviously a platoon (36 men) and I assume that the designation - 4.6/PzGr Regt 4 - relates to the fourth, Heavy Weapons, Platoon. This has an attack value of 12 and a range of 6.


I assumed that the first image was the full company (144 men; 4x36?) - if it is only platoons 1-3 how is that shown in the text information - 1.6/PzGr. Regt.4? If it is the full company, incorporating the HW platoon, why does it only have an attack value of 4 and a range of 11, less than the single platoon?

I really like the unit graphics and the fact that you can switch between them on the fly, although I also favour the Nato set.

However, I can't see an easy way, just looking at the counters, to distinguish between a platoon and a company. I know you can get that information from the side panel but the map is always the first port of call and getting a quick idea of which is which is extremely important IMO. Would it be possible to have text saying PzGr Co or PzGr Plt rather than just PzGr, for instance? Or have I missed something?

[Xaver]

I think something similar but i dont know if the engine can deal with this... i explain better.

NATO uses bars for company (one) battalion (two) and regiment (three) and under company level dots, two for squads and three for platoons (i think game doenst have "teams").



The problem is for me is if engine know when a counter represent a company (all subunits joined) a platoon (a single infantry subunit or in the case of the MG unit 2 squads joined) or a squad apart we have an extra problem, the FOW, if i can see if my units are squads/platoons/companies is ok but i see good to dont know this info about enemy troops, at least using FOW.

Game scale down is variable, think some units are in platoons that can divide in squads (the MG and recon units) and other are companies that can divide in platoons (infantry, armorered units...).

The point could be if we can see in the counters over the NATO symbol dots and bars to know if the counter represent a company, a platoon or a squad.

EDIT: better see it, i dont add companies but well i think you can see what i want say.

[Tide1]

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is the 1st - 3rd & 4th Platoons of the 6th Company of the 4th PzGr Regiment. Though not shown on the front, the II Battalion designation is shown on the OB on the back. Highlighting the II Battalion organisation is also easy.


David

David, firstly thanks for the steady flow of information.

In regard to the above images I confess to being somewhat confused. I can't tie up the information on the fronts and backs with your description.

The second image is obviously a platoon (36 men) and I assume that the designation - 4.6/PzGr Regt 4 - relates to the fourth, Heavy Weapons, Platoon. This has an attack value of 12 and a range of 6.


I assumed that the first image was the full company (144 men; 4x36?) - if it is only platoons 1-3 how is that shown in the text information - 1.6/PzGr. Regt.4? If it is the full company, incorporating the HW platoon, why does it only have an attack value of 4 and a range of 11, less than the single platoon?

I really like the unit graphics and the fact that you can switch between them on the fly, although I also favour the Nato set.

However, I can't see an easy way, just looking at the counters, to distinguish between a platoon and a company. I know you can get that information from the side panel but the map is always the first port of call and getting a quick idea of which is which is extremely important IMO. Would it be possible to have text saying PzGr Co or PzGr Plt rather than just PzGr, for instance? Or have I missed something?

Most likely the picture is two units in the stack. The machinegun platoon is supporting the infantry company. If I had some tanks close I would add them to the stack. That would make a nice little battle group :)

[Strela]

Here is an example of what I am talking about. This is the 1st - 3rd & 4th Platoons of the 6th Company of the 4th PzGr Regiment. Though not shown on the front, the II Battalion designation is shown on the OB on the back. Highlighting the II Battalion organisation is also easy.


David

David, firstly thanks for the steady flow of information.

In regard to the above images I confess to being somewhat confused. I can't tie up the information on the fronts and backs with your description.

The second image is obviously a platoon (36 men) and I assume that the designation - 4.6/PzGr Regt 4 - relates to the fourth, Heavy Weapons, Platoon. This has an attack value of 12 and a range of 6.


I assumed that the first image was the full company (144 men; 4x36?) - if it is only platoons 1-3 how is that shown in the text information - 1.6/PzGr. Regt.4? If it is the full company, incorporating the HW platoon, why does it only have an attack value of 4 and a range of 11, less than the single platoon?

I really like the unit graphics and the fact that you can switch between them on the fly, although I also favour the Nato set.

However, I can't see an easy way, just looking at the counters, to distinguish between a platoon and a company. I know you can get that information from the side panel but the map is always the first port of call and getting a quick idea of which is which is extremely important IMO. Would it be possible to have text saying PzGr Co or PzGr Plt rather than just PzGr, for instance? Or have I missed something?

Ok, I hope I'm not going to regret going down this particular rabbit hole...!!

Firstly, the way text is laid out on the side graphics is not always as intuitive as we would like. This is partly due to the mix of unit types at this scale. Because the panzer grenadier company has both panzer grenadier platoons & MG sections they will NOT combine into a single company name. Compare it to the infanterie companies designation which summarises because it only contains 3 platoons in the company.




What does show is that the unit in question is larger than a single unit with the +++ designation. This was evident both for the combined panzer grenadier platoons (3) and the MG sections (2). We deliberately built this OB as ultra realistic as we could but found there were 'exceptions' that would have created nightmares if we tried to force 'standardised' naming. As a rule of thumb, normally units have been setup in companies on the attack and as platoons and/or companies on the defence.

As far as counters, I have always (as have the play testers) found it easy to know which units are companies vs platoons. Using the show organisation button dispels any uncertainty when checking.

Finally to show you how a segment of OB looks like and where we have compromised for playability.

This is a panzer grenadier battalion. It is made up of three panzer grenadier (PzGr) kompanies and a heavy weapon kompanie. Each of the PzGr companies had an attached two tube 81mm mortar section - this combined with the two MG sections formed the support platoon in the PzGr kompanie. These ended up being a nightmare - they could only support their individual kompanie and the firepower was negligible. We moved all these sections to the HW kompanie which allowed them to both combine into a six mortar battery as well as support all units in the battalion. We did leave them with the correct kompanie designation for aesthetics reasons. Trust me this change removed a ton of units from the artillery dialog.

So that's one of the few changes we have made for playability reasons.



Also note in the above the Infantry guns in the HW kompanie can combine into a full battery.

David

[Tide1]

David did you take the blue pill or the red pill ?

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

My understanding is the guns were fired as a battery when the whole Bn was in one location except when the front was too large andd companies basically operated detached with their part of the guns if out of range for central location.

ALl these different suggestions should not interfere with the release of the game (SOON, I HOPE) <big, cheesy grin>. People's choice of symbols could always be patched in later, but all should be added as an option so everybody has their choice.