The Competition & Teaser Thread

[Richie61]

For a 3-4 division corps that would be some 400 to a bit over 500 units if support assets are included. I guess it might be a pain to move the many 2-3 gun units each turn, but all things considered 500 units doesn't sound too bad.

Moving 500 units/ counters per turn? That doesn't sound fun
And I thought Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue was a lot of clicking!

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

What I see about the mixture is from SBs, you get the ranged fire, PzCs, you get the casualties. I don't see one having to drop one weapon in order to pick up another like in SBs, but you will get both tactical and operational strategy in the game depending on the scenario size. I think it also has the ability for some great team games no matter the size of the scenario other than at least two companies in the mix.

I do assume and hope that the series will expand rather quickly so that we get plenty of nationalities involved and also that the entire war will be covered, not just the later years. I understand it was mentioned that it would concenttrate more on the one battle rather than a bunch of scenarios all over the place like CS, but please don't neglect the early part of the war. Even if the early part won't be covered until the final titles.

A post ww2 with the ability to have any country fight any country in any year like in Steel Panthers as well as some interesting scenarios would also be great.

Bottomline is, if it's good, people will buy it.

[Strela]

David,

Another one

You stated this early in the thread:

It is built on the Panzer Campaigns engine with Squad Battles features as well as new routines to reflect this scale.

Can you explain a bit on the Squad Battles features? I see the PzC features so far, but being a Squad Battles junkie I am very interested to see (hear about) the SB features in this new game!

From the continuing 'hidden' FAQ....

What features have come from Squad Battles?

Persistent Concealment. Dependent on the terrain, units will not be revealed until they either fire, are recon spotted or are assaulted. It is possible to assault a hidden unit in a hex.

Unlimited opportunity fire. Units during the Defensive Fire phase may fire an unlimited number of times. A previous tactic from Panzer Campaigns of soaking up Defensive Fire with a ‘cheap’ unit no longer applies.


The unlimited opportunity/defensive fire has already been mentioned.

The persistent concealment has not. There is a lot to discuss with this feature and I will provide a lot more info on this a little closer to release. There has been a lot added in its implementation in Panzer Battles - beyond what is in Squad Battles.

---

OK, after doing some math:

Assuming the average German infantry company consists of two units, with an infantry and MMG component and the mortars being in the HW company, the average infantry division could have at least 120 units when merged into companies or the maximum merge level for the heavy weapons, AT units and artillery, depending on the variety in equipment and thus in units (at this scale, mixed units don't sound like an option considering the smallest unit size is 2-3 guns or so, possibly even single guns). Compared to about 25 on average in PzC.

So, a full strength 9 battalion division would have about 4-5 times as many units compared to PzC? Compared to PzC, there would be more support units than true infantry combat units I guess.

For a 3-4 division corps that would be some 400 to a bit over 500 units if support assets are included. I guess it might be a pain to move the many 2-3 gun units each turn, but all things considered 500 units doesn't sound too bad.

I don't think its as many as that (though you're probably not that far off!!).

Divisions are quite manageable, its only the Corp scenarios that are getting big.

This screen shot shows a Panzer Korp. There are three Panzer Divisions shown. All units are combined where possible. I have highlighted an example support stack - please note that the game deliberately only shows four counters (maximum) in a stack on the game map - this is deliberate to reduce counter clutter. Rarely is there four or more counters in a single hex at any one time during play.




David

[GerryM]

I assume that people that regularly play the campaigns in PzC will have not problem with this number of units. But for me even one division would be overwhelming. How many of the scenarios are targeted for a division or more?

Thanks,

Gerry

[Strela]

I assume that people that regularly play the campaigns in PzC will have not problem with this number of units. But for me even one division would be overwhelming. How many of the scenarios are targeted for a division or more?

Thanks,

Gerry

Hi Gerry,

I have just done a quick count of the scenarios;




Now as explanation there are (currently) forty nine unique scenarios that can be played against the AI or head to head. There are a further eleven variant scenarios that have been adapted for play against the AI. Hence the current total of sixty.

A word of explanation on these classifications. Many of the sizes shown are overstating the number of units in a scenario. For example the very first Korp scenario in the game only has three regimental equivalents (essentially a Division) but they come from a range of Divisions. This has been classed as a Korp scenario though the forces do not number a normal Korp. There are also a number of scenarios with two regiments - these would be upgraded to a Divisional scenario. Once the forces go 'over' a category it is then classified as the next highest. A two battalion scenario would be classed as a Regimental scenario for example.

Hope that's as clear as mud!!


David

[GerryM]

Clearer than mud!

Gerry

[Xaver]

Well, the Korps level is for me similar to many medium scens in other titles, see the OOB remember me a lot the OOB "recon" scens in nap series.

A little question about OOB, the 6th PzD (the first one with green colour) has 5 regimental HQ (they have the ||| simbol), 2 are for infantry regiments and other 2 i think are for the armored units but there is a 3rd one under the 2nd infantry regiment... what kind of command is this??? duplicate HQ??? bug in OOB??? and in armored regimental HQ i have the same question, 6th PzD is the only one with 2 regimental HQ for armored units when is the only division with a single panzer battalion.

And other question, i notice now the quality in units, all german units showed are A quality, even the infantry from the 676 regiment, i see the Kursk values (and others) and usually only SS units or elite units like GD are A quality on the "Tiger" period when infantry and even units like Tiger battalions are B quality out of these elite unit... maybe they are A quality in PzB because "enemy" is one level over PzC??? B when in PzC is C and C when in PzC is D???

I think the scens are going to be similar in the "worst" case to a PzC medium scen, i find something like Cherburg scen in Normandy could be the top in PzB, this made them good for PBEM maybe now is the moment to improve PBEM with the add of Team game support.

Thanks for the info.

PD: i feel strange, i think game is close but every time you post i think i am excesive positive here

[Strela]

A little question about OOB, the 6th PzD (the first one with green colour) has 5 regimental HQ (they have the ||| simbol), 2 are for infantry regiments and other 2 i think are for the armored units but there is a 3rd one under the 2nd infantry regiment... what kind of command is this??? duplicate HQ??? bug in OOB??? and in armored regimental HQ i have the same question, 6th PzD is the only one with 2 regimental HQ for armored units when is the only division with a single panzer battalion.

The additional replacement regimental leaders are for commanders who were either wounded or killed during the battle. All regimental leaders are named and where available their photos are included.

David

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

[/quote]

The additional replacement regimental leaders are for commanders who were either wounded or killed during the battle. All regimental leaders are named and where available their photos are included.

David
[/quote]

I was assuming they might be handy as extra Cdrs in case another mixed KG or some sort of team was needed.

[Xaver]

O thanks, i dont remember this from some PzC and the alternate formations in OOB but here at HQ level.

Then if a regimental HQ is destroyed appear the "2nd" commander or appear a generic regimental commander???.

And talking about OOB, how works attach units in PzB??? is like in PzC only in night turns??? and if is like this what is the lower unit you can attach??? i think for example:

You have A and B regiments with 2 infantry battalions, A1 A2 B1 B2, you move all MG units in A regiment to A1 and use one A1 infantry company in A2 other in B1 and last in B2 or play with arty units at this level to trade arty for an infantry company between battalions.

So many questions hehehe.