PB Kursk '43 South impressions/discussion

[ComradeP]

Do you think it was easy for the Germans at Kursk? Big Grin

No I enjoy a challenge, but in my opinion the outcome of smaller scenarios with bunkers can depend a lot on when the defender is disrupted.

If the Soviets fight to the last man, which they do regularly even when D morale, your progress is much slower than if you remove them with the first assault. Some variability's fine obviously, but if you have bad luck with disruptions, your game becomes that much harder.

Hill 228_6's a nice scenario, it looks good, but I'm experiencing the same situation as with Gertsovka, where the variability in whether the Soviets disrupt and withdraw or not limits my victory.

Small scenarios will always depend relatively more on luck than bigger scenarios, that effect just increases with bunkers.

[Dog Soldier]

I disagree about smaller scenarios CP. You just have to figure out the right approach. The smaller scenarios are less forgiving if that is what you mean. They teach the principle of the period tactics. Use the right one and you will score a victory over the AI consistently.

Strela improved the AI in the ay he set up its commands. The PzB AI will give a good account of itself in most situations. Really huge scenarios and the AI gets lost, just like in PzC. It cannot adapt to a human player over time.

Dog Soldier

[ComradeP]

I'm talking about winning the smaller scenarios against a human player. I can win against the AI, but the AI isn't as good at force concentration as a human player.

The right tactics or not, in the end whether a defender leaves his bunker solely depends on disruption (or being killed). You can use the same tactics to close with a bunker in the most efficient way, but in one case it might take 3 turns to remove the defender and in another case they might fold immediately.

If the SMG guys in Hill 228_6 fight to the last man, buying the Soviets time to move the Rifle platoons in, winning is going to be much more difficult than in a situation where the defenders disrupt on the turn you attack them.

The outcome of a small scenario without bunkers is indeed decided by figuring out the right approach, and those can be enjoyable provided the defender can't sacrifice units to win.

The outcome of a small scenario with bunkers is much more about die rolls and when the defenders in the bunkers disrupt. If they fight to the death, you're less likely to win. If they disrupt quickly, you're more likely to win. In Gertsovka and Hill 228_6 you either have no weapons with a good hard attack value, or those can't really be used efficiently like the AT guns in Gertsovka because of the railroad embankment.

I can move my men in to attack a bunker from the best position and side, but beyond that I can't directly influence the actual outcome of the assault aside from adding more men or assaulting numerous times.

[Dog Soldier]

That is one way to look at it. I am more optimistic. I like to make my own luck.

Bunkers are just nuts to be cracked. And you do not have to crack the entire bowl to be satisfied. The defenders can pile into a bunker. That does not always mean they picked the right one. Humans can make mistakes. In my game experience if find it my job to show them how. Sometime they do, sometime I do. That is the fun of it.

Dog Soldier

[ComradeP]

I understand your point.

I prefer to figure out a good strategy and accept that at its core, there will still be die rolls to determine the exact results. Aside from very uncommon cases, a good strategy can't be stopped by bad die rolls, but in a small scenario you simply have less time to exploit a breakthrough if you were held up somewhere for 3 turns instead of 1.

There's also literally less room for the defender to make mistakes: the maps are narrow and the attacking forces limited. If you see any attacking units with XXX strength, you know there'll be a push there.

[ComradeP]

Mine clearing units in T mode don't trigger minefield attacks, is this working as intended?

[Strela]

Mine clearing units in T mode don't trigger minefield attacks, is this working as intended?

Mine clearing units never trigger mine attacks. They won't clear the minefield though if in T mode.

So yes, if you have a death wish you can drive through a minefield in your trucks (obviously with Otto waving a mine detector in front of you) but the defenders adjacent will shoot you to death. To make matters worse you will then be isolated next turn as you're in an un-cleared minefield and not attempting to clear it.

No one tried that in testing .... and lived.

David

[ComradeP]

It depends on how many defenders there are, if any. In some scenarios, roads are mined but lightly protected. You might also still be able to exit T mode, in which case the engineers will start clearing mines and you just leapfrogged through one or several minefield hexes by moving by truck, which is the situation that surprised me.

Like in the case of Hill 228_6. The engineers in the south can go by road in T mode without triggering minefield attacks and also often without getting shot at, whilst the PzG's will trigger a minefield attack immediately. It felt weird that a unit in T mode didn't trigger minefield attacks, engineers or not.

[Strela]

It depends on how many defenders there are, if any. In some scenarios, roads are mined but lightly protected. You might also still be able to exit T mode, in which case the engineers will start clearing mines and you just leapfrogged through one or several minefield hexes by moving by truck, which is the situation that surprised me.

Like in the case of Hill 228_6. The engineers in the south can go by road in T mode without triggering minefield attacks and also often without getting shot at, whilst the PzG's will trigger a minefield attack immediately. It felt weird that a unit in T mode didn't trigger minefield attacks, engineers or not.

Yeah, I don't disagree. I don't think anyone even thought about doing that. Usually the defenders would reveal themselves and the ZOCs would slow you down leaving you vulnerable.

Essentially, we have to stop T mode mine clearing units getting a free ride into a minefield.

Leave me to mull over it.

David

[Jeff Conner]

The engineers in travel mode not triggering a mine attack, but not being able to clear a minefield is the same as in PzC. I am guessing that is just the way it is coded.