Panzer Battles - Kursk Version 1.01 released

[ComradeP]

The lack of infantry divisions certainly complicated matters, which makes it all the more surprising that the 167th ID wasn't used to better effect.

Instead of being in front of either the SS or XXXXVIII Panzerkorps, it had to attack all by itself, which was going to be a slow affair even in the best of cases.

As a result, XXXXVIII Panzerkorps attacked diagonally towards the northeast and ended up some 15 kilometres east of their original positions instead of more or less to the north of them like the SS. That makes it even stranger that there was no mobile division at the flank of the SS. One good infantry division supported by StuGs, lavish pioneer support and Tigers on day 1 would have saved the mobile divisions some casualties, without placing the chance of a breakthrough in danger. A mobile division might even have moved through the breach cleared by the infantry in the afternoon or so, similar to how the SS Panzers moved through the gap created by their PzG regiments on the 6th.

That's probably one of the main things a wargamer would change: making sure the infantry actually supported the mobile units right from the start, even if it's only 1 infantry division.

168th ID is already spread very thin, so it wouldn't be of much use during the attack.

[ComradeP]

David, on a more game-related note: is the visibility air limitation working as intended?

The availability number seems to be rounded down, which means that when visibility is below 12 hexes and you have fewer than 4 air units, no air units ever seem to be available.

When I played Korovino against Dog Soldier, neither of my air units were ever available throughout the entire game. When I just ran a test for Pokrovka, German air support only became available the turn visibility improved to 12 hexes (there are 2 German air units in the scenario).

This means that the side with fewer air units, usually the Soviets, is at a disadvantage and that in a scenario where the attacker has 2-3 air units to help him, they might either never show up or only after several turns if visibility improves.

A minimum of 1 air unit for the limitation whenever the visibility allows air units to be present would remove the issue. As there's also the actual availability percentage to take into account, there might still be turns without any air units being available, but at least you had a chance to use them in that case.

I realize it would've been far more convenient to have reported this before the patch was released, but I haven't played many scenarios with less than 4 air units for my side and only really noticed it during the Korovino game with Dog Soldier. I wasn't sure what could be causing it until I ran some further tests earlier today.

[Strela]

David, on a more game-related note: is the visibility air limitation working as intended?

The availability number seems to be rounded down, which means that when visibility is below 12 hexes and you have fewer than 4 air units, no air units ever seem to be available.

When I played Korovino against Dog Soldier, neither of my air units were ever available throughout the entire game. When I just ran a test for Pokrovka, German air support only became available the turn visibility improved to 12 hexes (there are 2 German air units in the scenario).

This means that the side with fewer air units, usually the Soviets, is at a disadvantage and that in a scenario where the attacker has 2-3 air units to help him, they might either never show up or only after several turns if visibility improves.

A minimum of 1 air unit for the limitation whenever the visibility allows air units to be present would remove the issue. As there's also the actual availability percentage to take into account, there might still be turns without any air units being available, but at least you had a chance to use them in that case.

I realize it would've been far more convenient to have reported this before the patch was released, but I haven't played many scenarios with less than 4 air units for my side and only really noticed it during the Korovino game with Dog Soldier. I wasn't sure what could be causing it until I ran some further tests earlier today.

Thanks, I'll have a look and report back.

Welcome to the wonderful world of 1.0 releases. What release number is PzC Smolensk up to?


David

[Xaver]

Nº1

A little question, you dont think in add 2 more units portraits as a way to made easier diference between battalions inside the same regiment/brigade???

I refer 1st btl have X image, 2dn Y, 3rd Z a way to know if you are over 1st, 2nd or 3rd btl and if you are mixing units from diferent btls... maybe until you work in a way to see it in counters... and even whit this add more visual info.

Well, i am doing some tests, the extra info provide by units on open works fine and well, i notice something interesting, part of the problem with armor is that attacker can close range very fast with relative low damage... well, i dont know if is possible that armored units under attack (AT, arty, air) can lose action points, you know, units can try dodge enemy and even in a ride holes can force tanks move and block other tanks... they could avoid lose tanks or suffer fatigue but they can lose time and cover less terrain...

[Xaver]

I dont remember it, i do some fast modding... i change the colours in defensive works and add a letter to made easier see the defensive work type... i try first increase the border size to expand it to the hex border but i was unable to do it ok... the letter works fine until you find a line of sucesive defensive works... IP, T, B, P are the letters.

[ComradeP]

I'm hoping something like making opportunity fire at range S (as in: whatever the range is that is defined as S in the opportunity fire settings screen) far more likely to happen would already help.

But yeah, being able to keep moving when fired at makes it very difficult to keep some distance between two armoured forces. Soviet tank units can swarm German units without much risk of opportunity fire, unless there are a LOT of German tanks.

It remains peculiar that the results are partially based on the reasoning that a single tank (or gun) shouldn't be able to take out multiple targets, whilst in the vast majority of cases you're using 5-10 or so tanks in one attack. In practice, this means that those 5-10 tanks tend to knock out just one or two enemy tanks in half an hour, which really doesn't cut it for the Germans when facing larger numbers of enemy tanks.

Mechanically speaking, tank and gun units are treated as single entities in terms of the results they deliver, which is also why I rarely move gun units with my forces. The infantry guns remain parked where they start/appear as the risk of losing them to interdiction or artillery fire far outweighs their potential impact.

[Strela]

Nº1

A little question, you dont think in add 2 more units portraits as a way to made easier diference between battalions inside the same regiment/brigade???

I refer 1st btl have X image, 2dn Y, 3rd Z a way to know if you are over 1st, 2nd or 3rd btl and if you are mixing units from diferent btls... maybe until you work in a way to see it in counters... and even whit this add more visual info.

Damn you Xaver, that is a great idea - why didn't you suggest it BEFORE we released the patch???


That of course is really easy to do. I'll have a look at it for PzB 2, but may do a mini update file for here at the Blitz for those that would like individualised battalion level artwork for Kursk.

Here is some example of potential German commanders that haven't been used to date...




David

PS All your pictures come through as a thumbnail and I can never see a larger size to see the details...

[ComradeP]

It's a nice idea to add some variation to HQ pictures, though it wouldn't help with not mixing units from different battalions as the actual units still have identical graphics.

[Strela]

It's a nice idea to add some variation to HQ pictures, though it wouldn't help with not mixing units from different battalions as the actual units still have identical graphics.

It would help to identify the different HQ's and then highlight org for their subordinates. We already have a range of different HQ's due to the naming n the NATO counters. This is an easy implementation (other than time to get artwork and prepare it).



Here is an example in game.

Differentiated SS Panzer Grenadier battalion HQ's






David

[ComradeP]

That's true, it would help with highlighting their subordinates.

Due to there being no combined attack penalty for units within the same formation, I tend to send German companies where I feel they're needed as their HQ's tend to be close anyway if I move them to the front as well.

It would help the Soviets, though, in scenarios where their deployment is chaotic as they have to make far more disruption recovery rolls than the Germans.