SB guides and questions?

[Bullman]

Hello

As a SB noob, I have been looking for resources that might help explain how the games works a bit more than what the manual does. I can't seem to find anything really.

First of all, if it wasn't for the graphical mods made by users, I would never have bothered with the game so a big thanks to them.

From what I understand, the AI opponent is not that great and consequently the focus of the game is PBEM?

In the few scenarios I have sampled playing against the AI, it doesn't seem much of the games mechanics is made visible/apparent to the player. For example, just simple combat, when selecting units to attack and the target hex, there seems to be no documentation/tables to even give you any idea as to how effective/ineffective that fire will be. When watching the AI execute it's turn it happens so fast that if you blink you miss things. There seems to be quite a few stats associated with each unit and weapon but it all seems meaningless without a point of reference.

I was at least thinking there would be scrolling text/text window (something like you see in VASSSAL mods) that reported what was going on but there seems to be none.

Then you have the non-turn (defensive) return fire mechanic that doesn't even seem to be mentioned in the manual. How does that work?

I see that there are "P" and "D" tags that appear on units which I assume are "PINNED" and "DISRUPTED" or "DEMORALIZED", but what do the "H" tags mean?

Thanks for assist

Bull

[TheBigRedOne]

Welcome to the Blitz, Bull. I think you'll find a wealth of knowledge here in terms of SB...

The AI is adequate when playing on defense. Offensively it tends to bog down and do silly stuff, so I'd only play the AI when you are the offense. It's good enough to give you a feel for the mechanics and engine. This may take a little time, but once you become familiar with the system, it really gets fun.

H is Heavy Weapons. D is Demoralized. Disrupted does not show up on the top of the counter, but can be seen when clicking on the unit.

As for documents and tables in terms of resolving combat, there are no formal ones that you'll see on the screen, you'll have to assess this yourself. Like in real combat, you'll want to have a significant man advantage over any hex you're trying to assault. 2 to 1 minimum, but higher is better. Morale of your troops plays a big role in determining the outcome as well. Assault with a bunch of C and D morale guys and you'll probably get repelled unless you've got a whopping man advantage. The terrain the defender is in plays a role as well. If they are in a fortified hex, uphill or downhill from you, their morale, their state (P, D or disrupted) all play a role in determining an outcome. There is no simple equation that will tell you if you'll be successful or not, just like in real life. Assault only when necessary and only when you've got a significant advantage. Failing an assault pins your troops. Over assaulting is something that new folks tend to do. Firing at an enemy from your weapon's maximum distance is also something new folks tend to do as well.

Read the section on Hold Fire, which is important. Hold fire is your friend, especially early in an engagement. You won't waste AI pot shots at units moving near you.

Check out the Important Threads at the top of the page about rules and the like. It's a good primer. Also, check out the site in my signature. There are a bunch of tactical articles in there that go into great detail about the mechanics of the game. It's a good place to start...

The manual has a lot more useful information than it seems, but being unfamiliar with the system, it might not seem so right now.

[Jeff Conner]

Bullman

If you haven't already done so, I would also suggest that you download the Grenada demo from JTS Software (shameless plug, I know). It's free. In the newer titles, the Getting Started document and scenario add some good tips on play. The best way to learn how to play the game is through experience, however. If you want, I'll play you a game and you can ask any questions you might have about game mechanics and tactics. While I can't claim to completely understand the math behind the results, I have a pretty good idea of how the engine works. I can be reached at jefferyconner at suddenlink dot net.

Jeff

[Bullman]

Hi thanks for the tips.

I can't seem to find anything that explains why and when units automatically fire at enemy units when it is not their sides turn (some kind of defensive fire). I can only assume that a units ability to use defensive fire is in part affected by their own status (normal, pinned, disrupted etc) and perhaps if they fired at all during their own turn. There seems to be some randomness to it as I have seen units move through hexes in the same turn and receive no fire only to have other units in the same turn move through the same hex and receive fire.

Do all units have 3 "shots" of defensive fire?

I understand that the more you fire the more the fire effectiveness % drops so firing all the time at everything and anything is not good practice but, apart from that, does not shooting in your turn make things more favorable for your unit during defensive fire in the opponents turn?

I do not understand the mechanics of spotting yet. I understand how to check LOS (visible hexes) and that you do not spot everything in your LOS immediately. What determines whether you see an enemy unit in your LOS. Is there such thing as concealment?

It is a pity that JTS did not have the wisdom to recognize that the importance of displaying key information on unit counters is just as important in a computer "board-game" like Squad Battles (and the others) as it is if he were simply designing a traditional tabletop board-game. It is incredible how so much key information is not displayed on the unit counters. I am primarily talking about the numbers of men per counter. Not doing so makes keeping track of what is happening during the game (especially when watching the enemy turn) needlessly difficult/impossible.

It is good that JTS has finally discovered how ridiculously easy and simple it is to make a 2D map for a game look 3D as far as accentuating/beveling the contours like they now do in Panzer Battles. The ability to visualize the elevations and contours on those maps are miles ahead much more easier for the player than what it is in SB. Are there any map mods in particular that make visualizing SB terrain easier?

Would be good if SB got the PB treatment.

Thanks

Bull

[Jeff Conner]

Bull

The mechanics of defensive fire are not detailed in the manual, at least I have never found them. However, from experience, I am fairly confident that it is an algorithm that includes the range of the enemy unit (probably as a ratio to the maximum range of the weapon) and the morale of the friendly unit that has a line of sight to the hex the enemy unit is moving into. So things that have an effect on morale, like being pinned, disrupted and tired have an effect on the possibility that a unit will fire during defensive fire. There is no limit to the number of times that a unit can defensive fire (and it is checked by weapon rather than by unit, so a unit with multiple types of weapons (like most infantry squads) can fire more than once for the same moved hex). Unlike many other Tiller games, assault does not trigger defensive fire. Not knowing when the enemy units will fire is part of the suspense of the game.

There are times you will not want your units to fire during your opponents turn. This may be to conserve ammo until the enemy is in more effective range or because you have a limited number of effective shots and you want to make sure they are taken at appropriate targets (this is often the case with single use weapons and those with low effectiveness). Or it could be because units that fire from concealing terrain become spotted. If you reveal your defending troops to advancing enemy, you may allow him to bring supporting fires onto your position that disrupt or pin your troops before they can affect his attack. Knowing when and when not to use "Hold Fire" is an important skill.

Spotting is explained in the manual and is pretty straight forward. Vehicles are always spotted if they are in the line of sight of an enemy unit. Any unit that moves or fires in the line of sight is automatically spotted. Any unit in an open hex or one with a height of zero are automatically spotted if in the line of sight. If the terrain has a height of two meters or more then non-vehicular units in that hex are hidden until they move or fire. If the height of the terrain is one meter, than the unit is hidden if it is on ground, but spotted if it stands up. If you move a unit into a new hex, it will not be able to spot units in the open until the beginning of your next turn unless they move or fire. You might want to try a scenario against the AI with the Fog of War rule turned off and use the spotted units command to see what is visible to your units and what is not.

One of the inherent questions in designing wargames is how much control/information to give the player as opposed to what a commander at the same level would have in real life. Very few games have been successful when the player only has a level of control/information that is consistent with history. I once offered to run a SB game where the player issued verbal/written commands to his units and what occurred afterwards was described to him. He would only be shown that portion of the map that the counter representing him could actually see. I didn't get a single taker. Players, myself included, generally like way more control than any commander has ever had. SB offers that. But it also offers some suspense. You are not going to know how many enemy soldiers are in those woods, but you can get some impression by how effective their fire is (and by the number of tracers emanating from those same woods). At the same time, the unit tray gives you ample information about your units, significantly more than my aged eyes could make out on a counter. And you if want to know the details of an enemy unit, you can look it up.

I am not a mod guy. I confess, I have a hard time seeing the changes in elevation, so I turn on the show contours option. I have read topo maps most of my life and I have no problem visualizing the terrain with this option turned on. I understand that map mods are important to many players, but I am not one of them so I can't help you in this area.

Again if you want a game, let me know. I am running behind in my turns right now, but I will try and find time to help you get started if you are interested. I am late for work and need to get going.

Jeff

[Stejones82]

In my humble opinion, a very good way to get to know the spotting rules is to play a game as "Hotseat" with Fog of War ON. That way, you can play both sides and watch how the spotting rules kick in. And it will help you better gauge and understand some of the combat and assault features.

SB is an easy game to play, but a difficult one to master. So is chess, I am given to understand.

Search this forum for previous discussions which may interest you. Ask specific questions here also, but best to keep them short and to the point. Again, IMHO, many of us here tend to skip long diatribes and orations about the various merits and demerits of the game. You can pretty much assume that the readers of this forum are all mostly fans of the game "as is" and have learned to accept, and perhaps even appreciate, its abstractions.

Cheers! And here's to crossing bayonets at some point, eh sir!

Steve