thinkin' 'boutit

[Stejones82]

So I am being encouraged to investigate this system. I am a vet of Squad Battles, and somewhat of Slitherine's Battle Academy. I'm thinking CMBB/CMAK. I believe there is a package deal available from the developer.

Still widely played? Interested in tutoring a newbie? Advice on a good divorce lawyer? Unemployment state?

Serious and Not-so-serious comments welcome.

Steve

[A Canadian Cat]

When I first looked at the store I was thinking there was no bundle but there is: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?pag...&Itemid=26

CMAK was my favourite but I know CMBB is pretty popular.

I have to ask though are you sure you want to look at the older games? Not trying to start anything just making sure you know there is a newer version of the game series. You can read about it here: http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?opt...Itemid=459

[Compass Rose]

I was heavy into Combat Mission series before I discovered John Tiller JTS/HPS games.

I started off purchasing CM:BO which happened to be the first game I ever purchased off of the internet.

It was a very enjoyable game and biggest enjoyment came from being able to watch the replays from every possible angle and also from every possible unit. Nothing like being able to actually see a projectile in the air, about to hit your unit, or having the replay angle centered on a bazooka unit that is hiding, and watching it pop up and take out a enemy tank and close range, or having the replay angle centered on one of your tanks as they are firing as quickly as they can to knock out a enemy tank that is firing on them while having shells ricocheting off of your tank. It can be very, very addictive....with a price.

The price you pay, is time. It is so easy to get caught up in the scenarios and watching replays that it is easy to drop 2-3 hours of time, and then wonder why the day/night went so quickly!

CM:BO was great until CM:BB came out and the graphics on BB are blew BO out of the water.

The last title in that original series to be released was CM:AK which I never could get into.

From my POV CM:BB was the best and most enjoyable title, of the three.

At one point Special Editions were released of each title which included extra graphics mods, and maybe a few extra scenarios, etc.

I would suggest looking on Ebay or Amazon for the Special Editions (SE) versions of these games as I think they should be available very cheap.

Also, BO and BB originally were released with a printed manual. CM:AK only came with a PDF manual.

Also, IIRC, the Special Editions of BO and BB came with two cd's, one with the game and one with all of the extras. I think the AK Special Edition came only on one disk.

BTW, you can mod the games like crazy. Using JSGME is a must.

[raz_atoth]

Just let me repeat what A Canadian Cat already said

I have to ask though are you sure you want to look at the older games?

You might want to have a look at the new family of Combat Mission games: CM: Battle for Normandy, CM: Fortress Italy, CM: Red Thunder, even CM: Black Sea if you're into modern warfare.

What i'd recommend is to head to the Battlefront's Demos Pages and see which family/game is your cup of tea.

[Weasel]

I have been asked to respond on this so I will. I have found the original flavour of CM to be superior to CM2 for the following reasons (I will include negative too)
1. CM you get tons of more units to play with in the base games, CM2 you only get a few and then must pay for add on packs which almost cost the same as the base game. With just a single patch and two game packs my $55 game sit at $120 without paying for the latest patch or pack after MG.
2. CM the combat is more 'game' style and plays well. By this I mean infantry can actually last in a fire fight instead of evaporating under the first burst, also artillery seems to be a bit less lethal is CM which allows you to survive and keep your force intact longer
3. there doesn't seem to be all the spotting bugs in CM1 as in CM2, mostly talking about PzIV bug here where they seem to be blind, but a quick read of the CM board shows others who have blind tank commanders who can't see the rounds bouncing off their tanks.
4. graphics are inferior in CM1 but the game play is better. For me, CM1 with CM2 graphics would be awesome.
5. AAA is actually AAA in CM1, not AT. I guess the latest pack fixes this, but you have to pay to get that.
6. can't adjust AT guns in CM2. If you want to move your AT gun five feet forward you cannot roll it, you must pack it all up (5 minutes of game time, or 5 turns) move (1 turn) and then unpack (2 turns) so your AT gun is now out of action for 8 turns, that is easily 25% of a game.
7. CM1 a unit coming under fire has equal chance of all units taking casualties, I have found that the first burst on an infantry squad seems to always get the leader, and if a support weapon like MG or AT team it gets the gunner.
8. vehicles drive to where you tell them or don't move at all if path is blocked in CM1, CM2 they will spin around in their hex, drive through the enemy lines, or wander off on a route recon to try and get there. My first game with PzIV (there it is) I told my tank to back down the road he was on, instead he turned around in place before trying to back up, but the Shermans didn't let him go.
9. spotting is questionable in CM2, it seems to have many inconsistencies (read PzIVs suck). An AT gun is pumping rounds at you over a long field yet you cannot even see the hedgerow he is behind. Yes you may not be able to see the AT gun, but you should be able to see the hedgerow if he can see you.

Those are some of my points, my biggest beef is the ever expanding cost of the game, they charge you to apply a patch that fixes an error they missed or created and infantry that vaporize under the first burst of small arms. Others will say it all isn't so and that is fine, to each his own, but myself I wish I had kept my money and purchased Diablo 3 instead.

[raz_atoth]

Well, i have almost 500 CM pbem games under my belt, but i still consider CMx2 a vastly superior game.

1. CM you get tons of more units to play with in the base games, CM2 you only get a few and then must pay for add on packs which almost cost the same as the base game. With just a single patch and two game packs my $55 game sit at $120 without paying for the latest patch or pack after MG.

That's true. Prepare to spend a lot more money on CMx2 than on CM. So far there are 4 base games released and 3 modules. The base game costs $55, the module $35. On top of it, for CMBN and CMFI you'll need to purchase 'upgrades' (2x$10), to bring the base game to the latest engine version. A lot of money? Most likely. Money well spend? Definitely!

2. CM the combat is more 'game' style and plays well. By this I mean infantry can actually last in a fire fight instead of evaporating under the first burst, also artillery seems to be a bit less lethal is CM which allows you to survive and keep your force intact longer

The part about the arty being more letal it's 100% correct. But then again, arty was the no. 1 infantry killer in WW2. Infantry in my experience doesn't break under fire more than in CM. Unless you're taking CMBO as reference.

3. there doesn't seem to be all the spotting bugs in CM1 as in CM2, mostly talking about PzIV bug here where they seem to be blind, but a quick read of the CM board shows others who have blind tank commanders who can't see the rounds bouncing off their tanks.

The spotting system has it's issues, but it's far from being flawed. I'm not aware of any PzIV spotting bug, although i'm sure Chris will disagree with me on this one and point to the forum thread he wrote. Keep your tank commander unbuttoned, in a good position and don't expect your conscript TC to do wonders and you might do just fine even with a Pz IV ;)

5. AAA is actually AAA in CM1, not AT. I guess the latest pack fixes this, but you have to pay to get that.

Yes, that's no longer the case. AAA can now be used both as AT and AA assets.

7. CM1 a unit coming under fire has equal chance of all units taking casualties, I have found that the first burst on an infantry squad seems to always get the leader, and if a support weapon like MG or AT team it gets the gunner.

Do squad leaders get killed in CMx2? Yes. Are they always the first one to die? No. Are the soldiers carrying the MG always the first to die? No. I think there was a bug in the earlier versions which caused the squad leaders to die more often than they should, but i believe it has long been fixed. Or at least i haven't noticed this being an issue for quite a while.

8. vehicles drive to where you tell them or don't move at all if path is blocked in CM1, CM2 they will spin around in their hex, drive through the enemy lines, or wander off on a route recon to try and get there. My first game with PzIV (there it is) I told my tank to back down the road he was on, instead he turned around in place before trying to back up, but the Shermans didn't let him go.

I've seen this behavior, but very very rarely.

Those are some of my points, my biggest beef is the ever expanding cost of the game, they charge you to apply a patch that fixes an error they missed or created and infantry that vaporize under the first burst of small arms.

Actually, the patches, which consists of bug fixes, are free.The engine 'upgrades' on the other hand, aren't. An upgrade adds new features to the game. This allows CMBN - which is the first game in the serie - to be on par, when it comes to bug fixes & functionality - with CMRT - the last released game. I for one like the policy of 'no game left behind'.

All in one, some of Chris's concerns are valid, but IMHO minor and in no way game-breaking. As i said before, i suggest you head to the Demos Download Page and try both CM and CMx2. Then, after toying with both for a while, you can better decide which one betters suits your playstyle.

[Weasel]

As I said, while some may disagree and think the game is great I don't think it is, my arguments are no less valid than those that think it is the best game ever. Also you may wish to google the game and look for reviews, I found many with the same thoughts as me last night.

[A Canadian Cat]

Spot on - an opinion is an opinion and we are all entitled to ours. My suggestion is rather than read more about how people like me like the game and people like Chris do not like the game a much better approach would be to stop reading after a while - say an couple of hours (cause keeping the issues people have in mind is a Good Thing™) and download one of the demos. I personally suggest the Red Thuder demo because the demos for the other games are not as up to date as the RT demo (even it is a patch behind but only one patch). Then you can decide for yourself.

And either way play your games here! :)

[Stejones82]

Thanks, gents. Much to think about. Good conversation, and I shall certainly join in here upon purchase of the games.

[Compass Rose]

What kind of computer systems do you guys have and recommend for playing the newer CMx2 games?