LOS frustation & other bugs playing germans - Storm in the East Tournament - Round 1

[KeBrAnTo]

Nope not wrong. You are conflating having LOS with actually noticing the enemy units. This is a common issue that people have - their incorrect expectations. Sorry to sound harsh but I don't know how to not sound harsh when some one says "thats wrong" when they are the ones who are wrong You will remain sad if you do not adjust your expectations. Which is entirely up to you.

Pause for a cooling off.....

OK hopefully you cooled off after my harshness too.

Here is the thing BFC is not just modelling line of sight and line of fire and all the technical goodies in the vehicles. They are also modelling the human solider too. So just because there is a team of enemy soldiers at the edge of a woods not 200m away that does not mean that the soldiers on your side will notice them right away. Clearly enemy soldiers in the open close to your men will be spotted faster that enemy soldiers in some cover far away. The game models this too. But even then your guys might not notice them right away. And the enemy might notice your guys first. Just like real soldiers. Having all the great vision assist tools help but in the end human imperfection matters too. So Green soldiers will likely be slower to notice important things than Veterans will. The game is modelling this stuff. It also means that there *is* some luck involved which is why it is really important to do as much as you can to help your men do the best they can:

• give them time to spot things by having you men be stationary for extended periods of time (pausing for 5 or 15s at a way point is not enough to give them a chance to spot things in their surroundings)
  
• keep everyone in C2 so they can share what the see
  
• make sure they move carefully and with cover near by (cause then s**t happens you need a place to go and hide)
  
• ten men will be more likely to notice something than two
  
• don't forget that ten men will also be spotted easier (so those ten guys need more access to cover).
  

And the list goes on. The point is your tactical decisions matter a great deal but it does not eliminate the luck and imperfections of the solider.

I mean no offence I'm just telling you how the game is constructed to the best of my knowledge. If you disagree with that design decision that is of course totally your right. But keep in mind no one at BFC and none of the testers considers imperfections in the human solider modelled by the game to be a bug.

First of all, I have to say I agree with all of what you said up here, these are all factors that have a direct impact on the final result of an action on the game, and also probably we all always expect to get some specific results to certain actions we take when moving our troops (me too) and we usually get different results than expected, but IMO there is also another factor that we might not be considering, that is,the fact that we could not be seeing that there might exist bugs related to situational awareness, LOS, .... whatever ... that we (or BFC) do not want to investigate because it is easier to throw them in the bag of the random thing, and that's all my point, I suppose we all agree on the fact we all want the game polished to the max.

Cheers.

[A Canadian Cat]

Yep I agree with that. For sure bugs in this area can easily get missed and thrown into the "stuff happens just roll with it" pile. A great example is the hull down spotting defect that was recently fixed. There were complaints here and there for quite a while with regard to some hull down spotting and it wasn't until someone did a crazy amount of testing in one particular scenario that it was discovered. I was just to easy to say it was just bad luck. It took a multi 100 instance test that required several adjustments before the issue was isolated. I am glad there are people willing to stick with it and get to the bottom of issues.

[Tripps]

Canadian Cat - it was my forum posts that GAZNZ is talking about.
on Battlefront
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/1...try1575867

Gained some understanding on Action Squares - but the LOS/Spotting stuff IMO needs a lot of work.

Related to this - my biggest 'issue' with RT - is 'memory'.

What I mean by that, is on Iron settings (or whatever the highest is, sorry, in the office right now) - my guys 'forget' to quickly.

An example - referenced in the battlefront post - is how my HQ unit has orders to run out of a building into a kubelwagon, now as they run out, they roll that 1 on the d20, lose sight of the kubelwagon for a second, so re-path all their orders around the building over a fence, then the re-roll for spotting happens again, and this time they can spot their kubelwagon, and run back to hop in - but i had orders for the kubelwagon to drive off after 30 seconds so it bugs out before they jump in..
So, could be buggy LOS, 10 meters open ground, cant see the kubelwagon, or Memory: "Dude, wheres my car?"

As a consequence to Hans the driver rolling that 1, or related, or whatever, was as this HQ is running around, they lose radio comms to an unbuttoned Panther (with sniper team on the back) a few hundred meters away - now the Panther is hull down on a road covering a T34 that I suspect is about to cross LOS about 500m's away, and the Panther has a friendly reinforced platoon in the woods to its right - as soon as the Panther loses radio comms to HQ, all the markers of the friendly platoon turn to sound contacts, and the Panther starts swiveling its turret to the woods, obviously freaking out about who's in there and taking precautions - they have 'forgotten' they are friendlies.

Buttoned T34 rolls onto the road, spots the Panther pissing about with its turret and one shots it.



I see this happening all the time, squad jumps off a AFV, runs forward 20 meters over open ground and take cover behind a fence or whatever - then the 'roll' for spotting happens, must roll a 1 - fail to spot their AFV behind them (keep in mind the fence is in front of them, the AFV is behind them on open ground), start freaking out about this 'tank sound contact' behind them, 20 seconds later or something roll again, roll that 20! Ah, its our own Stug, pwew..

[A Canadian Cat]

I am not aware that friendly contacts are treated as hostile. That would not be good. Since I have not seen that I cannot really comment. Can you create a setup (manually created scenario or QB) that demonstrates this? Like those two incidents you describe with the friendly Panther protecting itself from the friendlies it suddenly thinks are enemy contact or the infantry worrying about their own support vehicle. If so please PM me and we can talk about getting the files so I can pass it on.

[Tripps]

I didnt say 'hostile' contacts, TBH I cannot recall if they were hostile or not, and I would probably say not - but I recall the Panther swivelling his turret back and forwards, between my cover arc, and the woods next to him (he couldnt see anywhere else) right after losing comms.

I dont even think I have the save file anymore, but yeah I'm sure I can replicate similar incidents, since I come across it regularly.