Opinions about "Game rules as used by players"

[BigDuke66]

Gentlemen
I would like to hear your opinions about the rules that can be found under "Game rules as used by players"( https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=67822 )
I read through them and it seems they solve problematic points of the SP engine.

Now I would like to hear from others what their experience is when using these rules.

[wulfir]

Seems good to me. Never played with them. I suppose they slow down the pace of the game somewhat...

[surcouf]

Gentlemen
I would like to hear your opinions about the rules that can be found under "Game rules as used by players"( https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=67822 )
I read through them and it seems they solve problematic points of the SP engine.

Now I would like to hear from others what their experience is when using these rules.

if there make sense, to much rules kill the tempo of the game for me .
i am always asking to myself if i am doing right or wrong ,also checking all the time if the other player apply the rules correctly.

[Weasel]

Hi all; just stopping by on my very old laptop, still waiting for snail mail to deliver my new hard drive.  Anyway, the rules don't slow anything down but they do add realism to the game.  Example:  AFV movement - without it you could have a flank that is a huge forest and you would not know if your opponent is going to run tanks through it; however, with the rule you know that, as in real life, those dense woods are a barrier to tanks so you can rest easy that only light units or infantry will appear there.

The FOO rule prevents players from abusing shoots.  Buy a single FOO, wait for your opponent to fire and then with that single FOO plot as little as a single gun onto different targets.  Could you imagine if each of the guns of a battery each had a different target?  Mayhem.

Best bet is to try just one, see how it goes, then try adding in another.  I recommend AFV rule to start followed by FOO.

[Percy]

Hi
for what its worth here is my rule set so far for what its worth.
These rules are easily enforceable and relatively simple.

No ammo resupply. No Z fire(except for pillboxes, HMG and MMG when defending and mortars(for mortars one z fire per turn which is considered a ranging shot.).
No aircraft including helicopters. No allies, foreign, captured, experimental or prototype kit.
No zero sized Scouts, Snipers or LMG groups except those included in companies or platoons
One demolition per engineer section. No Direct support or General support Artillery.
Artillery effectiveness 10%. Searching 40%. Rout/Rally 200%, exchange passwords at the end.

[wulfir]

Anyway, the rules don't slow anything down but they do add realism to the game. 

Do you mean the pace of the game or how interesting it is?

It seems to me a more realistic approach to the game must demand more turns before you win or lose?

In my current game against BigDuke66 I have attacked forward with my US 1945 armored infantry mounted in half-tracks. Even into enemy held villages. The realistic approach would be to dismount the infantry and walk them forward while artillery smashes up the village..., getting through would take twice/trippel the amount of time...

[BigDuke66]

I'm sure he means the pace of the game, house rules can always be a problem if too complicated or to hard to remember and so the time it takes to finish a turn can be longer, but in this case the seem rather easy.

Although I might need some clarification on some of the rules:

Infantry
1. Infantry cannot soak off tank shots so your tanks can move up without fear of counter fire
That means I shouldn't move infantry deliberately(like back and forth moves) to capture tank fire?

2. Infantry can only shoot at tanks if the infantry have AT weapons within range, this is only for ranged fire, infantry can always attempt to close assault a vehicle even if they have no AT weapons.
How do I achieve this, how do I stop infantry from using their none-AT weapons in the opponents turn?

4. Infantry units may only Z fire 2 hexes (100m) at hexes they have not received fire from, and out to LOS at hexes they suspect they took fire from.
Don't really get this one, so I can fire 2 hexes around me on any hex I didn't receive fire from?
And I can fire at all hexes even out of LOS hexes I took fire from no matter how far away?

AFV Stacking
1. Only a single tank class unit may occupy a hex; a tank unit may be stacked with an APC class unit. Tank class units may occupy the same space as a wrecked tank.
So a single tanks in each hex or just tanks from a single class(like Heavy tank) of tank?

[Weasel]

I'm sure he means the pace of the game, house rules can always be a problem if too complicated or to hard to remember and so the time it takes to finish a turn can be longer, but in this case the seem rather easy.

Although I might need some clarification on some of the rules:

Infantry
1. Infantry cannot soak off tank shots so your tanks can move up without fear of counter fire
That means I shouldn't move infantry deliberately(like back and forth moves) to capture tank fire?

Nope, it means shooting at a tank with small arms knowing they will return fire and then once they don't return fire because they have used up all their shots you move your tank up knowing he is safe from return fire.

2. Infantry can only shoot at tanks if the infantry have AT weapons within range, this is only for ranged fire, infantry can always attempt to close assault a vehicle even if they have no AT weapons.
How do I achieve this, how do I stop infantry from using their none-AT weapons in the opponents turn?

You don't, it is meant for your turn and goes hand in hand with 1.

4. Infantry units may only Z fire 2 hexes (100m) at hexes they have not received fire from, and out to LOS at hexes they suspect they took fire from.
Don't really get this one, so I can fire 2 hexes around me on any hex I didn't receive fire from?
And I can fire at all hexes even out of LOS hexes I took fire from no matter how far away?

Two hexes if you are just spec firing.  Out to LOS if you took fire from a hex, like a house, but the enemy unit does not appear on map.  This rule is to stop players Z firing every unit they have every turn, and yes they do exist and are a real pain in the ***.

AFV Stacking
1. Only a single tank class unit may occupy a hex; a tank unit may be stacked with an APC class unit.  Tank class units may occupy the same space as a wrecked tank.
So a single tanks in each hex or just tanks from a single class(like Heavy tank) of tank?

Single tank per hex.  Each hex is 50m/50y.  In my six years of being a zipper head we never had our vehicles closer than 100m/y to each other, to dangerous for collateral damage.   You would never see tanks sitting side by side firing unless on the range from my experience.  And in my 6 years of being infantry we still didn't bunch our APCs up.

[BigDuke66]

Thanks for the clarifications.

[Walrus]

Infantry
1. Infantry cannot soak off tank shots so your tanks can move up without fear of counter fire.

That means I shouldn't move infantry deliberately(like back and forth moves) to capture tank fire?

Nope, it means shooting at a tank with small arms knowing they will return fire and then once they don't return fire because they have used up all their shots you move your tank up knowing he is safe from return fire.


Just to add to this:
I agree with Chris' ruling here....but in general, jumping units in and out of LOS to cause op-fire is a tad gamey IMO, no matter what rules you are using.
I use the op-fire filter that comes with the CD version of that game to set my troops to ignore this type of soak off tactic, but when playing others with no op-fire filter, I would consider that technique to be Bad Form.

In general, a good rule set actually speeds up the game IMO as you don't have to discuss what is OK and what's not prior to the game start. Chris and I are always tweaking rules to see what works and what doesn't. We have some good systems now to deal with arty use / FOO use and also z-fire which really help keep the game more RL and make you work harder and play more sensibily.
For me that raises the enjoyment of the game considerably.

Nothing is worse than watching a reply where you oppo has z-fired every unit to the max number of shots. The game totally over emphasises the effect of z-fire on morale and makes it impossible to play against.

IMO the main problem with z-fire, is that there is no way to oppose it...no op-fire options.
That's what makes it unreal.
You get to pound away with z-fire and then just move in a crush any defense, the defender having meekly sat there and been hammered without returning fire.
I'd love to see a game system tweak where z-fire causes return z-fire...that'd stop it's overuse in a flash!