Op-fire at hidden units

[Von Earlmann]

Had this happen in recent turn of EF. An enemy armor unit moved into a hex with no other units visible. My armor op-fired twice at an unseen infantry unit with no effect. Needless to say when the enemy armor fired it was very effective and the unseen unit remained hidden during the entire exchange. I know during regular play units cannot fire at empty hexes and unseen units. So, why can they fire at unseen units during op-fire thus wasting the intended shot? Hopefully this is a glitch that can be fixed as there is the potential for some gamey tactics here. Nothing like moving armor into a hex and having an unseen infantry take the shots and then demolishing the opposing units. I don't recall this ever happening in previous versions.

VE

[Crossroads]

Hello VE,

That sounds fishy indeed.

Would it be possible to email the game file to me so I could have a look at it as well?

krazykat dot theblitz at gmail dot com

[Von Earlmann]

Hello VE,

That sounds fishy indeed.

Would it be possible to email the game file to me so I could have a look at it as well?

krazykat dot theblitz at gmail dot com

Files sent

[Crossroads]

Thanks, I had a look and what happens is indeed there's an unspotted Rifle platoon in the hex a Soviet TD moves into, receiving Op Fire instead of the TD.

As you guys know it is normal that when multiple units in same hex, it is not given which unit receives the Op Fire, so what happened here was a normal procedure apart the fact the said Rifle unit was unspotted. It appears the Op Fire algorithm does not take into account if the unit is spotted or not. I checked but there should not have been any changes to neither the Op Fire mechanism nor Spotting mechanism in JTCS 2.x, so I'd assume this is a legacy feature although spotted only now.

Old bugs such as this one are still being found as we've learned with CS:ME, so that is a possible explanation here as well. We'll check this behavior in the new game titles to see what really takes place. Until that, please keep your eyes open and please post here again if anything fishy is found. It is appreciated!

Finally, I'd assume this is not something that is easily exploitable, although there is the Spotted icon in the units so it might be possible to recreate this with intent.

But as with spotted units too, one lessens the chance of the valuable unit being Op Fired by moving to an already occupied hex to perform the fire mission, so that has always been an option...

Sorry for not being able offer more on this one.

[RedDevil]

Kat, just wondering if you could look and see what the OP fire settings are for the unit that shoots.. Just curious if it was set not to shoot at soft target, yet it still does?
I thought I had set all of my armor accordingly, as I change it each turn depending on what I perceive as a threat that needs countered on where I'm sitting and what can possibly shoot at me.

Not sure if it was my armor that wasted the OpF, But I think it was.

Dev

[Crossroads]

Cheers Dev,

Checking on the save game, it seems only the left Stug at 22,123 had Op Fire set on Armor only. The mkIV next to it had Op fire set on all types, as did the two mkIVs in front of them, at 22,122. Wanna check them too from your save file so I am not mistaken?

Additionally, I did a quick test scenario with on plain sight I had two infantry in a hex, then entered the hex with armor in front of hostile row of tanks, they all set to fire at Armor only. They all fired at the tanks, no scatter to infantry on the same hex. This was with spotted units though...

[Von Earlmann]

Cheers Dev,

Checking on the save game, it seems only the left Stug at 22,123 had Op Fire set on Armor only. The mkIV next to it had Op fire set on all types, as did the two mkIVs in front of them, at 22,122. Wanna check them too from your save file so I am not mistaken?

Additionally, I did a quick test scenario with on plain sight I had two infantry in a hex, then entered the hex with armor in front of hostile row of tanks, they all set to fire at Armor only. They all fired at the tanks, no scatter to infantry on the same hex. This was with spotted units though...

It happened again but with different results. The first shot retreated the armor and was followed by a second shot which retreated the hidden infantry unit. Not as bad as the first time but, still kinda weird watching a shot at unseen units

[Crossroads]

I will try to simulate this with your previous Kursk scenario and with 1.04, to get a better grip of this! Might take a few days though.

[Von Earlmann]

I will try to simulate this with your previous Kursk scenario and with 1.04, to get a better grip of this! Might take a few days though.

No worries!

[Dan Caviness]

Hey Earl/Randy:

Is this the scenario we are currently embroiled in?
Doesn't sound right, no matter what scenario it is, but if it's the one we're playing perhaps I can help check it out for you.

Regards,

Dan /