3D Graphics for Panzer Campaigns Relaunched

[Strela]

Hi All,

As shown in a number of threads (the F 40 being the most recent), I have been redoing all the graphics for Panzer Campaigns in my spare time.

I've just spent the weekend doing an overhaul of the 3D graphics which have always been pretty sub standard in my opinion.

The big thing is we have dumped the really ugly sprites and added something different which I believe works much better. Some examples follows (note the 3D counter option is still present)

This first shot is the original look including the sprites;

(all shots are all right clickable to open in a new tab for full size)





Here is the same shot using our updated 3D graphics. Note all of this is WIP and may change;







This shot is at 100% and shows a meeting engagement using our replacement units for the sprites;






The next two shots show German and Soviet Infantry Divisions in 'column'. Note the lorry, horse and foot units;











Here is 200% shot showing more details of the units;







And a final shot also at 200% with a broad range of units for both sides;






Happy for any thoughts or commentary.

Thanks,

David

[Compass Rose]

I really love the new map graphics look.  It makes the game look like some other game series instead of the good ole PzC series.


As for the counters, I really like the look of the infantry unit counters.

I am not so crazy about the look of the non infantry unit counters. 

Some of the tanks images look just OK however, I do not like the look of the "3D" infantry artillery images.

Also, I really don't like the way things look when multiple counters are in on hex (stacked up) as it totally blocks you from identifying and reading the terrain that they are located in.


Still as a whole, very impressive WIP.

Thanks

[todk]

Outstanding. I look forward to installing and using them. Keep us posted.

[Strela]

I really love the new map graphics look.  It makes the game look like some other game series instead of the good ole PzC series.


As for the counters, I really like the look of the infantry unit counters.

I am not so crazy about the look of the non infantry unit counters. 

Some of the tanks images look just OK however, I do not like the look of the "3D" infantry artillery images.

Also, I really don't like the way things look when multiple counters are in on hex (stacked up) as it totally blocks you from identifying and reading the terrain that they are located in.


Still as a whole, very impressive WIP.

Thanks

There are lots of limitations with this particular counter set (a whole lot more on that later)

Would you prefer 2D counters (like PzB) rather than the 3D shown? Do you think that would work better?

David

[Compass Rose]

There are lots of limitations with this particular counter set (a whole lot more on that later)

Would you prefer 2D counters (like PzB) rather than the 3D shown? Do you think that would work better?

David

There are "old timers" who have been playing JTS games for 18+ years in 2D view.

I was introduced to JTS games about 10 years ago and I have been playing in 2D view 99% of the time as the old 3D graphics were very weak.

I feel very comfortable playing my games in 2D view and I know many other guys who feel the same way.

I think having your new 3D graphic maps along with using PzB type 2D unit counters like the Side‐on, and NATO would look really good and still be "user friendly" (I'm not a fan of the top down counter images).

That way when more than one unit is sharing a hex with other units, you can still have a better view of what type of terrain they are in, compared to your original example shown in your 1st post.

[Ocito80]

I can't speak for others, but I've only ever played with 2D as the 3D versions just weren't up to snuff. And I doubt I'd ever play with the 3D view unless something drastically changes.

I almost wish JTS would go the route of Panzer General 3D with their maps. But that is neither here nor there.

I do think the square images are better than the old sprites. But I am not a fan of how they stack in the same hex.

Another approach, if desired, may be instead of squares, make the units hexagon shape that can fit nicely into the hex. Then you can adjust defense structures (trenches etc.) accordingly surrounding the image.

I would rather have a compromise of good 2d units on a 3d map, if possible.

Just a thought.

[Lowlander]

Where do I start, square peg round hole, I prefer 3D sprites and all !!!. ( although the original files need adjusting as they are off-centre, this results in small lines on map ). I have corrected this fault.

Why in your screen shots are hexes always set to off ?, I always set hexes on.
The new 3D counters make the game look like a AGEOD game, my opinion.
Why are the NATO symbols on the 3D counters, this blocks the artwork, this is already displayed in the Unit Info Box.

I can see you have put a lot of time and effort in to this, so the steam-roller is in motion.
Why was Panzer Battles released with no 3D ?.

Only my opinion, will post a screen shot of what I use, stolen, borrowed and shaded etc.

[Pepe Botijo]

Much better now! Thanks, Dave!

I never play in 3D, mainly because of the bridges: it´s almost impossible to see them inside cities or those located in low altitudes close to a higher hex. Furthermore, sometimes it ain´t easy to distinguish roads and bridges because they have similar colors.

[Strela]

Hi,

I want to provide some further clarifications so that people understand what can and cannot be done with this graphics set.

The 3D is very different to the 2D. Where as the 2D is consistent where there is an individualised NATO counter for each unit, the 3D only does this for the 3D 'Counter' option. The 3D counter option has its own nuances (just click slowly on a stack in a hex and see what happens).

The 3D sprite view works differently. There is a limited number of graphics for each 'state' and 'type' of a unit. For example, when units are in travel mode they are represented by trucks or half tracks or horses etc.

Here is an example of an infantry unit and HQ in travel mode. Note the truck and infantry sprite;






Now here is the same hex with both units out of travel mode. Note both look like infantry! That's because there is only one graphic for 'deployed' men. Though a HQ the unit looks like infantry;






The same thing happens with guns and other towed equipment. Here is a horse drawn and truck towed guns in travel mode. Both the truck and horses are shown. The Nato symbol gives some idea these units are towing guns;






And here is how the units look when deployed;






There are 33 sprites in total of various types, but the infantry deployed in particular limits what can be shown.


For Compass Rose, seeing the terrain is easy. Yes the sprites stack but a lot can be done with them. In the next four shots i'll show you the potential options for display. This first shot is the baseline with everything turned on (including Divisional markings);

(Again right click and view in a new tab to see full size)






Here is the same shot with 'bases turned off'. This removes the counter behind the graphic - this causes some other issues and is currently experimental, but it is possible;






Here is the same shot turning units off. Currently you can see the positions of the various units via the discs but the terrain is very clear (unit bases have to be back on for this to work);






And if unit bases are off you get completely clean terrain;






Finally for Lowlander. Here are hexes on. It was inadvertent that I had left them off as the 2D terrain works best with hexes off. Personally I prefer it on for the 3D view. This view also shows that highlight unit now works so you identify units in the same organisation. I have put the NATO counters on for Divisional identification and to give some idea what type of unit the sprite is. Please note counters/graphics can only be ~ 30 x 30 pixels, so it's very limited;






Finally, John Tiller made the call to nix 3D from Panzer Battles. As the code is based off Panzer Campaigns it is probably there, but we would have to decide whether it was worth the effort resurrecting it.

David

[Lowlander]

The 3D view, last picture is much better, something which I would have no problems using.
I do use 2D for planning, movement etc, but use 3D for moving into contact and combat in the large hex area.