Friendly Halftrax Debate

Dan Caviness · 05-16-2019, 10:41 PM,

No one's been pissed off on these forums for years so... Wink

First...a heartfelt disclaimer!
I come in peace, my guns are empty, actions open, all benched downrange... Target

For all those who have embraced a hard craniumed "halftrax" ideology, I appeal to those neurons within your crystalline skulls that remain pliant and flexible enough to embrace change, fostering peace and harmony in the process. Before they die of alcohol poisoning I mean.

There is a time for war...and a time for debate...I.E., "civilized war"... Rambo

I was getting my ass beat the other day in EF2 and was wondering if during our extended and exhaustive creative period a decade or so ago, when spring was still in the air, men were men, and sheep were scared...if anyone decided an unloaded half track...the bane of all existence and owner of about half our ROE's...should be able to assault a loaded truck?

Just a wrinkle that occurs to you when your getting over ran by a few thousand Communists in lend leased Studebakers and Chrysler Power Wagons...

In many scenarios the 1st side player is pushing hard to secure position, usually somewhat regardless of casualties, because you can't make an omelet as they say. So the occasional loaded truck gets spotted.
**it happens.

Enter the unloaded half track.
They technically remain combat units, and should be able to assault a nice pile of loaded trucks with no firepower at all.
Orrrrrrrrr shouldn't they?

Hey...Clint Eastwood did it in Kelly's Heroes so... Yikes2

I understand we are all going to have our own ROEs here and I am not of a mind to try and change any hearts and minds. I may try to win them over...but I spring from the Vietnam generation so I know how that shit works...
When you go to the Wal Mart and buy Vietnamese flip flops for the beach does that mean we won?
Hearts, minds, and pocketbooks? White Flag2

You can lead a guerrilla fighter to a claymore mine...but you can't make him detonate it... Flame2

Respect and regards to all you comrades and gentlemen warriors!
Salute6

**Scud** · 05-17-2019, 03:50 AM,

Hi Dan,

I play by anyone's rules, as long as the rules apply to me, too. However, I find that halftracks are easy points for the opponent, so I use them to transport the meat, then get them back out of harms way. Your point about them assaulting a truck, loaded or not, though, makes perfect sense. All the more reason to unload your trucks before they get too close to the front...and keep a little armor in hand to handle any wayward halftrack threats. That's certainly what I'd do if I were playing by your rules. Smile

Dave

Von Earlmann · 05-17-2019, 09:29 PM,

(05-16-2019, 10:41 PM)Dan Caviness Wrote: No one's been pissed off on these forums for years so...

First...a heartfelt disclaimer!
I come in peace, my guns are empty, actions open, all benched downrange...

For all those who have embraced a hard craniumed "halftrax" ideology, I appeal to those neurons within your crystalline skulls that remain pliant and flexible enough to embrace change, fostering peace and harmony in the process. Before they die of alcohol poisoning I mean.

There is a time for war...and a time for debate...I.E., "civilized war"...

I was getting my ass beat the other day in EF2 and was wondering if during our extended and exhaustive creative period a decade or so ago, when spring was still in the air, men were men, and sheep were scared...if anyone decided an unloaded half track...the bane of all existence and owner of about half our ROE's...should be able to assault a loaded truck?

Just a wrinkle that occurs to you when your getting over ran by a few thousand Communists in lend leased Studebakers and Chrysler Power Wagons...

In many scenarios the 1st side player is pushing hard to secure position, usually somewhat regardless of casualties, because you can't make an omelet as they say. So the occasional loaded truck gets spotted.
**it happens.

Enter the unloaded half track.
They technically remain combat units, and should be able to assault a nice pile of loaded trucks with no firepower at all.
Orrrrrrrrr shouldn't they?

Hey...Clint Eastwood did it in Kelly's Heroes so...

I understand we are all going to have our own ROEs here and I am not of a mind to try and change any hearts and minds. I may try to win them over...but I spring from the Vietnam generation so I know how that shit works...
When you go to the Wal Mart and buy Vietnamese flip flops for the beach does that mean we won?
Hearts, minds, and pocketbooks?

You can lead a guerrilla fighter to a claymore mine...but you can't make him detonate it...

Respect and regards to all you comrades and gentlemen warriors!

Halftracks are our friends :-)

Herr Straße Laufer · 05-17-2019, 10:34 PM,

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in.
Cigar5

Loaded trucks within the movement and assault range of a half track? Big Laugh

My thought. If it shoots, it fights. Thank you 3

HSL

Warning: No emogies were harmed while writing this post.

Dan Caviness · 05-19-2019, 03:33 AM,

HSL...as usual we appear to be on the same page.

The reason I brought it up is you can certainly fight (by firing) a halftrack. That part is somewhat unassailable, but these days you have these trucks with the "2" defense and the standard German half "trax" has a very low attack value. Especially in comparison to the new variant stuff like the MG half tracks available to the Yanks in WF that more and more of us are incorporating into our scenarios.

One could assume the German halftrack would have probably been carrying an MG42. They strapped them on just about everything including sidecar motorcycle units, it was their "go to" MG. Yet the German version in game is still the old, very limited fire weapon. Not saying the half track should be using the same fire table as the German MG unit. I am saying maybe it needs a bit of a tweak. The "default" German half track IS the MG halftrack, IMO.

But as of now, their crap attack value just makes assaulting the "easy" way to take out loaded trucks. No need to get frustrated trying to shoot them. But, since unloaded, can a half track really assault anything? No troops to jump out the back. I believe you'd just go "half tracking" by the truck column and light them up with your MG. Kind of a half track "strafing run" as it were. I realize it's nuance at this point, which could easily be interpreted as a viable "assault" strategy or fire attack.

This question usually occurs to me in every EF scenario where there are Russian hordes involved. The half track "rub" as it were, the one that shook this cabal to its very roots, seems to have originated in EF, where the Germans have them and the Russians don't. The disparity becomes obvious. When both sides have them...it becomes tit for tat.

Still, while the big ROE is don't use them to assault (too fast...too easy...and a questionable unit to fight in any case) I thought as long as a loaded truck has no firepower that could be one instance where it makes a bit more sense.

Sorry...the other (even bigger) ROE we instituted is don't use them to draw OP fire...and then follow up with the tanks.
That one is probably the best ROE I've seen.
It's a real crusher when the enemy does this.

Just spitballin' boys...enjoy your weekend... Soap Box

Hawk Kriegsman · (This post was last modified: 05-19-2019, 03:54 AM by Hawk Kriegsman.)

Hello All,

Just when I was minding my own business...…………………... Whistle

It is very simple for me.

Does the halftrack have a FP value? Check

Does the halftrack have an Assault value? Check

Can one use halftracks to assault anything they wish? Check

To me halftrack ROEs are not worth the effort.

Will you ban the American quad .50 from assaulting? The German quad 20mm?

Keep in mind that an assault does not explicitly mean hand to hand combat, it does represent 2 units in the same 250 meter hex for a time unit one unit is forced to vacate the hex via retreat of elimination. I see envision it as halftracks blasting away from a 100 meters or less.

By in large using half tracks as combat units will result in you losing more points than you gain.

I go out of my way to destroy halftracks left exposed by my opponents. The point value is just too good to pass up.

Keep in mind that I play with extreme assault only, so halftracks winning an assault against a stack of demoralized units is far from a given.

That being said have I used halftracks to mop up infantry? Yes

Have I used halftracks to mop up tanks? Yes

Have I used halftracks to surround and black? Yes

Additionally I have used British 2 pounder portees and Russian GAZ AA trucks in an assault as well as other armed trucks and I have used the Russian machinegun toting wagon in an assault. Propeller Hat

Again if it has an FP and an assault it is a combat unit. And I will use by combat units as I see fit.

Hawk

P.S. Dan is a troublemaker and agitator and should be dealt with harshly by the moderators. Whip