#16_14s Wacht am Rhein (Herbstnebel)

[Plain Ian]

16:00 Dusk

I've ran out of time so I'll post the a few maps without graphics. I'll take them down and re post tomorrow. Units in red are Disrupted. 

You should be able to make out two bridges at Dasburg and 2nd Panzer armour halted in front of a damaged ditch. 

26th VGD have a bridge at Germund but are struggling to get anything across. (Ditch and Obstacles)

5th FJD have no bridges but have cleared Fouren...or maybe he evacuated it? I'll check. The one thing Brian has done in this game is NOT bug out quickly from Bunkers? When I played the first 6 turns I basically ran as soon as I became un Fixed. 

And yes that's units of 26th VGD over the river wandering about wondering if they can walk all the way to Bastogne......



Larger maps which I'll add a bit more detail tomorrow. 1st map updated. 17/7. I've highlighted a few interesting units in most of the Volks Grenadier divisions. The 14th and 15th companies are heavy or special units. The 14th are labelled Pz Zerst which I think is supposed to be short for panzerzerstörer? These I think are the anti tank companies. However their high hard attack value and assault values are just the thing for attacking bunkers. The 15th company is a special assault unit. Hence its unique icon. It has a Mine Clear ability as well which is useful.



Map below updated 18/7.

[Plain Ian]

Overview of 7th Army in the south. Only two bridges planned. One built and one still in progress. I possibly should have tried to build more but its not really a vital area?

212th VGD is a very good unit (B rated) so has made good progress despite having only two Regiments active. Consdorf was occupied without a fight? He gave it up. I know he is weak in the south so rather than fight I've relied on infiltration to make progress. (no ZOC) Most of my fighting has been done by my artillery. 

The bridge at Echternachbruck has been up several turns but progress clearing road still slow.

276th VGD took a while to push 9th CCA back in the wooded area. The 276th VGD is a D rated unit so I'm not expecting much now that the heavy artillery has withdrawn. I've started pushing it west towards Diekirch. (GR 986) The bridge at Wallendorf is underway at last. It took several turns to get a bridging unit in place. I'm building it straight south to connect to the main road in the wood hex not south west where there is a Pioneer unit. Looks strange but my understanding is that a bridge built on a primary road into a hex containing a primary road will effectively form a primary road connection and ignore the terrain in the connecting hex......I hope. 



I'll post a few detailed maps later.

[Indragnir]

Love your AAR Ian, keep them coming.

PS: I'm playing as US vs Brian also, it's very interesting watching from the other what he is doing as german and american.

[Plain Ian]

Love your AAR Ian, keep them coming.

PS: I'm playing as US vs Brian also, it's very interesting watching from the other what he is doing as german and american.

No problem. Its a lazy Sunday over here in Scotland. here is a 'kitchen sink' graphic. Which means I've just thrown everything on it....

276th VGD. (HQ just off map to the north) Its in reasonable shape. Few losses suffered but probably not much inflicted on the enemy. No bridges built yet so all losses are in men. Divisional fatigue is still low with most units 10-25 fatigue, there are 3 which have higher fatigue 50+ but this is still green so no concerns. 
Units are slightly mixed but the 986 GR is sliding to the left towards Diekirch and GR 987 will follow.

The right wing of the 212th VGD is pushing hard but will probably halt to secure Consdorf until rest of the Division arrives to its left flank.

I've posted a sample of a Volks Grenadier Battalion.

[ComradeP]

Looks strange but my understanding is that a bridge built on a primary road into a hex containing a primary road will effectively form a primary road connection and ignore the terrain in the connecting hex......I hope.

That's indeed what should happen. It can create odd situations or create favourable conditions that nullify some terrain penalties (like building a bridge into a forest hex with a road running through it, which would normally consume most or all motorized MP's if not entered along a road).

Based on your AAR thus far, I was a bit worried that the designer might be making changes that would limit the effects of some less ideal moves he's made, regardless of whether what happens is due to balance issues, but it seems more people are playtesting the scenario.

[Plain Ian]

Looks strange but my understanding is that a bridge built on a primary road into a hex containing a primary road will effectively form a primary road connection and ignore the terrain in the connecting hex......I hope.

That's indeed what should happen. It can create odd situations or create favourable conditions that nullify some terrain penalties (like building a bridge into a forest hex with a road running through it, which would normally consume most or all motorized MP's if not entered along a road).

Based on your AAR thus far, I was a bit worried that the designer might be making changes that would limit the effects of some less ideal moves he's made, regardless of whether what happens is due to balance issues, but it seems more people are playtesting the scenario.

I knew someone else was play testing but I didn't realise that it was Indragnir. This is good news. 

After 6 turns I'm finding it slightly easier to play. There is a plethora of units to consider but that's because I'm still trying to optomize my moves. So I find myself fiddling about with the large Panzer Divisions trying to shuffle them forward for no real gain.

The only key units I should be looking at early on are Pioneers and bridging units. The fact that the Volks Grenadier Division have a 'special' 15. company which has engineering capabilities does give me a bit of flexibility if I screw up. However these are too useful for leaving behind as they should be leading the assault.

The other thing I'm finding hard is supply management. Its starting to bite. But hey this is the Ardennes 1944. 

[Plain Ian]

Love your AAR Ian, keep them coming.

PS: I'm playing as US vs Brian also, it's very interesting watching from the other what he is doing as german and american.

Some numbers to look at.

Here are the losses in the current game. I've lost the results for Turn 2 so can only display Turn 3 - Turn 6.



As a comparison here are the losses in my previous play through with Brian. He played the Germans and I was the US player. He did make several changes to the game but you can see that German losses in my game at Turn 6 are running at roughly 1200 men higher than at the same turn. However I have inflicted 700 more losses in US men.

[ComradeP]

It will be interesting to compare the losses in this game to your previous Bulge AAR, though it's a different scenario.

US losses of Men and Vehicles were roughly 2.5 times as high as German losses by turn 36. Gun losses are difficult to compare because I recall you were playing with counterbattery on, which tends to lead to extreme artillery losses.

Do you perhaps remember if US-Allied losses were roughly even in the opening day in the other game as well?

Based on this AAR thus far, the defender can inflict decent losses with artillery and direct fire from bunkers, but will lose units when trying to hold positions against a numerically superior foe. As soon as you can reduce those pockets, US losses will spike for a couple of turns.

By the looks of it, as soon as Allied artillery needs to keep moving to stay away from your spearhead until it can reposition behind natural obstacles, artillery losses are likely to drop sharply over time before additional artillery units arrive and the redeployed artillery is back in action.

[Plain Ian]

It will be interesting to compare the losses in this game to your previous Bulge AAR, though it's a different scenario.

US losses of Men and Vehicles were roughly 2.5 times as high as German losses by turn 36. Gun losses are difficult to compare because I recall you were playing with counterbattery on, which tends to lead to extreme artillery losses.

Do you perhaps remember if US-Allied losses were roughly even in the opening day in the other game as well?

Based on this AAR thus far, the defender can inflict decent losses with artillery and direct fire from bunkers, but will lose units when trying to hold positions against a numerically superior foe. As soon as you can reduce those pockets, US losses will spike for a couple of turns.

By the looks of it, as soon as Allied artillery needs to keep moving to stay away from your spearhead until it can reposition behind natural obstacles, artillery losses are likely to drop sharply over time before additional artillery units arruve and the redeployed artillery is back in action.

I'll check to see if I still have the old files. It might be quicker if I load up Wacht Alt and play through the first turns myself. 

Firing from Bunkers when un disrupted does seem to be the best option. However I think it still carries risk of being disrupted by German artillery and even by German infantry defensive fire because some of their units have very decent hard attack values. I didn't do this but Brian did. With mixed results. I guess it all depends on the player. If you think that you will be disrupted and assaulted anyway next turn, you might as well try to inflict as many casualties as you can during your own turn. 

US artillery when it fires does hurt. Expect to lose 10+ men even if you are in woods and Bunkers. That's the heavy stuff 155mm. Any thing heavier will be more. 105mm then its 5 at least although it does vary. Thats just off the cuff observations. The more units stacked then the higher the losses but of course they are spread though the different units. I think losses will be proportional to strength though?

That's a good point about US artillery. A lot of V Corps artillery starts around Saint Vith. Thats why I'll push hard to get there.

Last map below. 212th VGD area. On paper it looks like big gains for this B rated unit. (I've marked up some of the starting positions of US forces 06:00) Losses are low. 

I rolled into Consdorf last turn. It was undefended. Not because he retreated from it, but because the US player doesn't start the game occupying it. He has now been able to react (un Fixed?) and moved armoured units next to it. The 14./GR 423 occupied it during his turn and the power of the Zerstorer company was shown when they managed to kill a tank, and take out 2 men later when his infantry arrived. Unfortunately his tanks took out 10 men. I've pulled out the 14./GR 423 and put the A rated 15./GR 423 into the town to hold it. 

4th Armoured tanks also appeared last turn on the main n-s road from Echternach but I suspect this is to help his infantry withdraw.

Rather than fight I've continued infiltrating through the woods trying to use this as cover.

At Langsun and Mompach he is holding because he knows the Festung units are not great quality. Plus he needs to try and get the unit that was stationed at Dickweiler to safety. I deliberately avoided this unit and just advanced south. Hence why it was isolated.

I've managed to get a Bau Battalion over the river but this isn't a real engineer unit? It has no Mine/Obstacle clearing functions but can ferry units. I've read discussions about how the PzC OOB can be used to denote engineer type units but the pdt determines its abilities? (or is it the other way around?) Anyway I thought I'd illustrate this unit and a few others. Especially German supply units! The horse drawn supply wagon. Don't laugh but on certain occasions eg poor roads or rail tracks these things are more mobile than trucks!

[ComradeP]

The stats on that Festung infantry unit look decent, and the assault value is better than the US value in the same screenshot.

There will be adjustments for quality, but that's a D quality unit you can fight with.