New Kharkov '43 Campaign

[Strela]

Hi All,

Saying Panzer Campaigns Kharkov '43 is my first love is an understatement. It was my first ever John Tiller Software release, and was actually the first ever game self-published by John after he moved away from HPS.

To celebrate the upcoming ten year anniversary of the game, César ‘Indragnir’ Librán Moreno and myself have built a 'Variant 2' version of the campaign. Version 2 takes into account both new research, changes to the game system and player feedback.

The vast majority of the work has been done by César, I have just looked over and provided some commentary. As a reminder, the first Kharkov '43 patch included a combined campaign that joined the three phases of the operation together. The Variant 1 Campaign was released after 18 months to take into account the overall balance of the campaign and this new variant reviews the whole campaign. One example of change, is that limited time objectives have been included to reflect the importance of various locations at different points of time. This removes the requirement to check the current objective totals at set times.

This is new work and we are releasing it now to get some play testing and feedback from the community. We will take any feedback given and look to update as required. The intention is that the 'official' release will happen in the next patch cycle which will happen soon with the new hi-resolution graphics. Please note that there are new OOB, PDT and scenario files.

You can read all the game notes here; Variant 2 Design Notes

The victory conditions are here; Variant 2 Victory Conditions

Scenario & Files Zip Folder; All Files - Interim Download

Please unzip this into your Kharkov '43 directory. All files and artwork should be included.

Please feel free to post any play feedback here at the Blitz please as we really want to hear what people think of the included changes.

Thanks!

David & César

[ComradeP]

I can't open the included scenario file in the game or scenario editor, an error prompt appears (File Read Error - error reading scenario file).

I've unzipped every file into the Kharkov '43 directory, overwriting existing files when prompted.

The changes to quality are pretty serious. 

Unless the code was changed, I'm not sure if the quality fire modifier applies to negative numbers when the modifier is greater than 1.

It only applies to positive numbers in Panzer Battles according to the combat results dialog.

I'll provide feedback when I can get the scenario up and running.

[Strela]

Hey all,

Our bad. The new files won't work with the current public build. It's my fault as I have been testing out the latest graphics etc and never went back and tried in the original game. The issue is predominantly the limited time objectives. We will included this new campaign and a lot of other things with the next patch (which will be soon).

I have left the design notes up for all that want to see what has been changed.

David

[Indragnir]

Unless the code was changed, I'm not sure if the quality fire modifier applies to negative numbers when the modifier is greater than 1.

It only applies to positive numbers in Panzer Battles according to the combat results dialog.

I think you're right, I overlooked it, it's a flat -20% instead of the intended -50%. So I need to change most Rifle Divisions to D quality...

[BigDuke66]

Bought K43 in the recent sale and it's a nice bonus to see how much in was again improved. The notes are impressive.
But I would like to know if these changes are only for the new Grand Campaign Variant 2 or if they, were applicable, are also being added to the smaller campaigns respectively smaller scenarios. Would be a pity if the improvements were confined to only the new scenario.

[Strela]

Bought K43 in the recent sale and it's a nice bonus to see how much in was again improved. The notes are impressive.
But I would like to know if these changes are only for the new Grand Campaign Variant 2 or if they, were applicable, are also being added to the smaller campaigns respectively smaller scenarios. Would be a pity if the improvements were confined to only the new scenario.

At the moment, its only the Campaign scenario. That said, you will note that there was Variant 1 versions of some of the 'smaller' campaign scenarios and I will probably look to at least adjust those and include Variant 2 versions.

Importantly, we want to get feedback on how these changes work overall before rolling them out any further. Cesar came up with some pretty different ideas and we want to make certain that we haven't gone too far.

A version to work with the current build is being created currently and we hope to hear from you all on your experiences playing that.

David

[Mr Grumpy]

David,

Does this scenario require an additional entry into the scenario DB so the guys can report these games?

[BigDuke66]

@Mr Grumpy
I'm pretty sure it does, it isn't a replace but a new scenario.

@Strela
Please help me out here with the readme of the new scenario, on page 2 it mentions:
"Quality Fire Modifier is set to 2. That means any B unit will get a +20% bonus (plus their +10% bonus base) and A quality units +40% bonus (plus their +20% base). C quality units have no effect and D quality units have a -40% (plus their -10% base).
Since all Russian formations (except for the 2nd Guards Tank Corps) are now C quality, the negative side of the rule won't cause any trouble... until Russian gets enough fatigue or become Disrupted.(Same for Germans have they usually have better Quality)

If any unit is D quality (Fatigue, Low Ammo, Low Fuel, Disruption, Isolation) that unit will suffer a -50% thus reducing their fire capacity to half (others modifiers like Disruption or Low Ammo will worsen the situation.)
If your units drop to D, either rest them or regroup them like they did historically or you will have (likely) only 25% of your fire capacity vs up to +50% firing modifier if you're attacking an A quality unit."

I think the math is wrong, the manual notes the Bonus for A/B units as times the Quality Fire Modifier, so if it's set at 2 it would give a bonus of +40%/+20% for A/B units. That this would go on top of the base value, and by that give would give +60%/+30%, is afaik wrong.

Also for D units the malus isn't -50% but just -20% because it doesn't matter what is set for the Quality Fire Modifier as that value only modifies A/B units.

[Indragnir]

Please help me out here with the readme of the new scenario, on page 2 it mentions:
"Quality Fire Modifier is set to 2. That means any B unit will get a +20% bonus (plus their +10% bonus base) and A quality units +40% bonus (plus their +20% base). C quality units have no effect and D quality units have a -40% (plus their -10% base).
Since all Russian formations (except for the 2nd Guards Tank Corps) are now C quality, the negative side of the rule won't cause any trouble... until Russian gets enough fatigue or become Disrupted.(Same for Germans have they usually have better Quality)

If any unit is D quality (Fatigue, Low Ammo, Low Fuel, Disruption, Isolation) that unit will suffer a -50% thus reducing their fire capacity to half (others modifiers like Disruption or Low Ammo will worsen the situation.)
If your units drop to D, either rest them or regroup them like they did historically or you will have (likely) only 25% of your fire capacity vs up to +50% firing modifier if you're attacking an A quality unit."

I think the math is wrong, the manual notes the Bonus for A/B units as times the Quality Fire Modifier, so if it's set at 2 it would give a bonus of +40%/+20% for A/B units. That this would go on top of the base value, and by that give would give +60%/+30%, is afaik wrong.

Also for D units the malus isn't -50% but just -10% because it doesn't matter what is set for the Quality Fire Modifier as that value only modifies A/B units.

From the manual:
There is a Quality Fire Modifier Parameter Data value, which is by default equal to one, that applies to fire modifiers for A and B units below.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is A, then +20% times the Quality Fire Modifier value applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is B, then +10% times the Quality Fire Modifier value applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is C, then no firing modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is D, then a –20% modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is E, then a –40% modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is F, then a –60% modifier applies

Seems contradictory. Maybe a test is needed to figure out how it works properly.
However I think you're right on the +60%/+30%. To achieve 50% bonus QFM 2.5 would be needed.

PS: New notes and Kharkov 43 v2 for 1.04 patch is almost ready for you test.

[Indragnir]

Please help me out here with the readme of the new scenario, on page 2 it mentions:
"Quality Fire Modifier is set to 2. That means any B unit will get a +20% bonus (plus their +10% bonus base) and A quality units +40% bonus (plus their +20% base). C quality units have no effect and D quality units have a -40% (plus their -10% base).
Since all Russian formations (except for the 2nd Guards Tank Corps) are now C quality, the negative side of the rule won't cause any trouble... until Russian gets enough fatigue or become Disrupted.(Same for Germans have they usually have better Quality)

If any unit is D quality (Fatigue, Low Ammo, Low Fuel, Disruption, Isolation) that unit will suffer a -50% thus reducing their fire capacity to half (others modifiers like Disruption or Low Ammo will worsen the situation.)
If your units drop to D, either rest them or regroup them like they did historically or you will have (likely) only 25% of your fire capacity vs up to +50% firing modifier if you're attacking an A quality unit."

I think the math is wrong, the manual notes the Bonus for A/B units as times the Quality Fire Modifier, so if it's set at 2 it would give a bonus of +40%/+20% for A/B units. That this would go on top of the base value, and by that give would give +60%/+30%, is afaik wrong.

Also for D units the malus isn't -50% but just -10% because it doesn't matter what is set for the Quality Fire Modifier as that value only modifies A/B units.

From the manual:
There is a Quality Fire Modifier Parameter Data value, which is by default equal to one, that applies to fire modifiers for A and B units below.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is A, then +20% times the Quality Fire Modifier value applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is B, then +10% times the Quality Fire Modifier value applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is C, then no firing modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is D, then a –20% modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is E, then a –40% modifier applies.
• If the Quality of the firing unit is F, then a –60% modifier applies

Seems contradictory. Maybe a test is needed to figure out how it works properly.
However I think you're right on the +60%/+30%. To achieve 50% bonus QFM 2.5 would be needed.

PS: New notes and Kharkov 43 v2 for 1.04 patch is almost ready for you test.

Did a quick test. Bigduke66 is right, despite of what manual states, QFM only works on A/B units.

Is that a bug or working as intended?
If it's not a bug then all Russian infantry should go back to D and QFM should go to 2.5