North Africa unit morale

[CountryBoy]

I know this is a discussion that can never end, but the morale settings in some of the PzC games sometimes leave me scratching my head.

I'm playing the Operation Compass scenario from El Alamein '42 and at the same time I am reading the excellent 'The Crucible of War' by Barrie Pitt (recommended to me by members of the club). In the book I am right now reading about the attacks of the Australian 6th Division against Bardia and Tobruk during Operation Compass. Barrie Pitt speaks very highly of the fighting prowess of the Australian troops, so I was looking forward to the 6th Australian Division arriving on the battlefield....and when they finally arrived they are Morale C!

That hardly seems like the soldiers who captured Bardia and 40,000 Italian prisoners for the loss of only 130 Australian lives. Meanwhile, other units on the map, such as the 3rd Coldstream Guards of Shelby Force are a Morale A unit. A very good unit indeed, but that much better than the Aussies....?

[-72-]

I know this is a discussion that can never end, but the morale settings in some of the PzC games sometimes leave me scratching my head.

I'm playing the Operation Compass scenario from El Alamein '42 and at the same time I am reading the excellent 'The Crucible of War' by Barrie Pitt (recommended to me by members of the club). In the book I am right now reading about the attacks of the Australian 6th Division against Bardia and Tobruk during Operation Compass. Barrie Pitt speaks very highly of the fighting prowess of the Australian troops, so I was looking forward to the 6th Australian Division arriving on the battlefield....and when they finally arrived they are Morale C!

That hardly seems like the soldiers who captured Bardia and 40,000 Italian prisoners for the loss of only 130 Australian lives. Meanwhile, other units on the map, such as the 3rd Coldstream Guards of Shelby Force are a Morale A unit. A very good unit indeed, but that much better than the Aussies....?

To be fair to the publisher, that one was originally a 3rd party mod.  I tend to agree with you, but at the same time they should be able to cut through the Italians without much of a problem. 

Here's another book dedicated to Bardia:   https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/...frontcover


Plus you can find a lot of information at the Australian War Memorial:  https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RCDIG1070200 including To Benghazi (which covers Compass in detail).

[CountryBoy]

Here's another book dedicated to Bardia:   https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/...frontcover


Plus you can find a lot of information at the Australian War Memorial:  https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RCDIG1070200 including To Benghazi (which covers Compass in detail).

Thanks, I didn't know it was a 3rd party mod. It just seemed really odd considering what I was reading from Barrie Pitt, who spent much time describing the immense strength and fortitude of the Australians. I'll look into those links you provided, thanks for that. 

I really can recommend The Crucible of War by Pitt, it reads more like an adventure novel than military history - very well written and engaging.

[-72-]

Here's another book dedicated to Bardia:   https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/...frontcover


Plus you can find a lot of information at the Australian War Memorial:  https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/RCDIG1070200 including To Benghazi (which covers Compass in detail).

Thanks, I didn't know it was a 3rd party mod. It just seemed really odd considering what I was reading from Barrie Pitt, who spent much time describing the immense strength and fortitude of the Australians. I'll look into those links you provided, thanks for that. 

I really can recommend The Crucible of War by Pitt, it reads more like an adventure novel than military history - very well written and engaging.

The Australian forces are a specialty interest for me - I think I might have Pitt's book - that had a version that came in three volumes didn't it? I recognised the cover from Amazon - don't think that I ever got around to reading it though.

[Mr Grumpy]

Yes the Compass '40 scenarios were an expansion pack for Alamein '42 title created by Volcano Man with the help of Steel God, since the Gold upgrade they have been included by default in the title.

I don't have Alamein loaded at the moment but normally VM includes notes with his scenarios which you may find included in the game files, if they do exist then they might explain the reason for the quality ratings?

I am certainly not an expert on this campaign, but were the 6th Division facing their first action, if so that might explain why they were C rather than B quality?

If I get to chat to VM I will certainly ask if he can remember, but these scenarios were created a long time ago now so it might tax his memory. 

[Outlaw Josey Wales]

[quote pid="442213" dateline="1610199538"]
I don't have Alamein loaded at the moment but normally VM includes notes with his scenarios which you may find included in the game files, if they do exist then they might explain the reason for the quality ratings?

[/quote]


External HD for gaming only will fix being stuck with not having a particular game loaded at any time.  If it fails, get another power cord and you're back in business.

[CountryBoy]

Yes, Pitt's books came in a trilogy but was originally published in two volumes, which are the ones I own.

To Mr Grumpy, yeah it is the 6th Division's first taste of action so perhaps that explains it. Although, wouldn't morale be based on a unit's historical performance? As opposed to experience? Anyway, it's not important, it just seemed a little unusual. It is an excellent scenario, I am having trouble replicating the historical outcome - too many Italians!

[Dog Soldier]

Shelby group is a high morale, but very small unit in Operation Compass mod of El Alamein 42.  That group cannot make much headway along the coast road until the Australian 6th arrives at their position.  The Australians can then take the Shelby group positions and start pushing up the coast while Shelby Group flanks the Italian positions in a series of moves inland.
The Italians will crumble yielding many prisoners.

Bardia can be crunched much the same way.  There are several weak points in the Italian defense of Bardia.  The Shelby group can spread out in a sector to complete the encirclement to the west and north of the defensive ring.  It is important to race ahead to block the Italians trying to withdraw along the Via Balbia.  Here is where the Jock Column and 11th Hussar armored cars shine.  All through the campaign of Operation Compass these units can range far in advance of the main lines setting up blocking positions where needed along the main road networks in the Axis rear areas.  Augment these units with air strikes you hold back just for them to use on Axis units spotted in transit mode along those roads.  Whether Axis units are fleeing to the next defensive line or rushing in reinforcements this recon group can call devastating air strikes.  Sending naval assets up the coast early so they can reach Bardia ahead of your ground forces will help this effort.

Not allowing the Axis forces to withdraw in time to escape you will yield far more VP than the VP locations.  This will make your Major Victory assured.

Dog Soldier

[-72-]

Yes the Compass '40 scenarios were an expansion pack for Alamein '42 title created by Volcano Man with the help of Steel God, since the Gold upgrade they have been included by default in the title.

I don't have Alamein loaded at the moment but normally VM includes notes with his scenarios which you may find included in the game files, if they do exist then they might explain the reason for the quality ratings?

I am certainly not an expert on this campaign, but were the 6th Division facing their first action, if so that might explain why they were C rather than B quality?

If I get to chat to VM I will certainly ask if he can remember, but these scenarios were created a long time ago now so it might tax his memory. 

No need- I am pretty sure the explanation was always in the notes; it was something along the lines of its being the 6th Division's initial action.  

I pointed out that it was a mod - yes originally, and was included - like a lot of created material has been with the later updates  -the point was more along the lines that it was researched and developed outside of the group that put together the initial product.  It wasn't because I wasn't aware that it was now included in the release. 

The way that morale works in these engines are probably best looked at when comparing the overall effect within the context of play. Individual morale ratings are more or less irrelevant outside of the context of how they interact.

The thing about whacking in all of the extra content is it tends to put the context of the original release out of context -where as when they were all from Ed's site - then that was the context  ... and no mistake he has done a ton for the hobby, and basically is a bit of a role model. 

While I don't actually agree with how he assessed the morale as he had in the notes - it didn't impact the play - essentially the campaign scenario was about assaulting the fortified positions and then pursuit.  The mobility limitations on the Italians are probably the biggest factor in their own demise. Gavin Long's book has some details about the composition of the 2nd AEF. Off the top of my head, apart from the obvious, they were an all volunteer force (iow - no draft), their core leadership group were comprised of WWI combat veterans.

[Strela]

Hi,

Also wanted to mention that Operation Compass gets pretty extensive coverage in Panzer Battles North Africa 1941.

Both the attacks at Bardia and Tobruk are covered as are many of the other engagements.

Here is a short write-up of a playtest of the Tobruk scenario from Compass WDS Blog entry - Tobruk

The Panzer Battles scales works particularly well in the desert.

David