PzC, FWWC and command control

[JLorenz]

I was wondering if a "command control" play mode was ever considered viable for PzC and FWWC series. It would be interesting to play one of those huge full campaign scenarios being able to control only a single army, or army corps, having to react to what happens elsewhere on the front.. I'm currently playing a PBEM team game, which is definitely more enjoyable than anything you can do in single player mode, but still. Anyone ever suggested it?

[Ricky B]

If I understand what you are suggesting, you can do it, although it wouldn't be enforced. You could set AI orders for the parts you don't want to control, and then react to the poor AI decisions with the forces you do want. I am not sure how else to have things happen along other parts of the front, in any game. Unless there was some sort of heavy scripting, but I still don't know how that would actually work.

Rick

[Landser34]

Another way to do this is you play a Team game where each person plays a Army Corps or division depending how you want to divide it up.

[JLorenz]

If I understand what you are suggesting, you can do it, although it wouldn't be enforced. You could set AI orders for the parts you don't want to control, and then react to the poor AI decisions with the forces you do want. I am not sure how else to have things happen along other parts of the front, in any game. Unless there was some sort of heavy scripting, but I still don't know how that would actually work.

Rick

I was thinking more like the "command control" mode you have in the Napoleonic and ACW series, where you can manage your unit, and you cannot interfere with the AI commanding all the other forces. I always found strange that they didn't implement such mode in the PzC/FWWC series, as you have way more units and counters there than in any NB and ACW game.

[phoenix]

Well, I've played a few C&C games against the Napoleonic AI, and there doesn't seem, ultimately, very much difference between that and playing using the AI orders function in Panzer Campaigns (double click a division/brigade and alt-right click where you want it to move to - it will 'plan' a move and execute it when you select 'activate AI orders' - after that you can 'activate AI firing' so you don't need to do that either.) In both cases you can have a laugh at how utterly atrocious the AI is and then, suddenly, it doesn't seem so surprising that games against the AI are such a waste of time (I assume the enemy AI has at its disposal just these very functions, plus the scripts the designer makes...). I've given up on it, because no matter how much scripting the designer painstakingly produces the AI is still terrible at even reacting to short-term tactical threats. To practice for PBEM I do hotseat now, which works very nicely. The Napoleonic series C&C looks a bit more sophisticated but every time I've used it the moves have been pretty silly, I think. At least, compared to how a human would do things.

[Sir John Cope]

To practice for PBEM I do hotseat now, which works very nicely.

You meant solitaire, right - playing both sides?

[phoenix]

To practice for PBEM I do hotseat now, which works very nicely.

You meant solitaire, right - playing both sides?

Yes. I'm old enough to forget the exact dispositions of the enemy I've moved myself in the really big battles, where there could be a few days before I come back to the game.  Younger folks would have less FOW when playing themselves though... In any case, if you can pretend to yourself that all these little counters 'mean' something then you can certainly pretend you don't know the exact enemy dispositions, no? I mean it's all an exercise in make-believe... And this way you get to see, and understand, both sides of the coin. For 'excitement' I would normally have a PBEM game going, anyway. But, to be honest, most of the really interesting big battles in the series play out along much the same themes and variations, I think, and even in the Mediterranean titles it usually comes down to a pretty grinding slog, in the end. In a title like Kharkov 42, you might say, there's a lot of excitement wondering precisely where the reserve forces will be committed, and playing myself even I can remember what my decisions on that will be, so I have some little house rules to mitigate that, even throwing a dice for some decisions. I could cheat, but I'd only be cheating myself...

[Sir John Cope]

To practice for PBEM I do hotseat now, which works very nicely.

You meant solitaire, right - playing both sides?

Yes. I'm old enough to forget the exact dispositions of the enemy I've moved myself in the really big battles, where there could be a few days before I come back to the game.  Younger folks would have less FOW when playing themselves though... In any case, if you can pretend to yourself that all these little counters 'mean' something then you can certainly pretend you don't know the exact enemy dispositions, no? I mean it's all an exercise in make-believe... And this way you get to see, and understand, both sides of the coin. For 'excitement' I would normally have a PBEM game going, anyway. But, to be honest, most of the really interesting big battles in the series play out along much the same themes and variations, I think, and even in the Mediterranean titles it usually comes down to a pretty grinding slog, in the end. In a title like Kharkov 42, you might say, there's a lot of excitement wondering precisely where the reserve forces will be committed, and playing myself even I can remember what my decisions on that will be, so I have some little house rules to mitigate that, even throwing a dice for some decisions. I could cheat, but I'd only be cheating myself...

I recall reading somewhere - SPI's Fire & Movement or AH's The General, probably - the estimate that more than half of wargames were played solitaire. This was pre-internet, of course, when you either found opponents in your town or attempted the onerous task of playing by snail mail. The PC game and the 'net changed things: FOW was much easier to implement, and anyone with an email address was a potential opponent. But I think there's still a place for solitaire play, certainly: trying out strategies, studying the game, etc, etc.

[Liebchen]

To practice for PBEM I do hotseat now, which works very nicely.

Seriously, though, spare yourself and just dive into the pbem mode. You'll not regret it.

Also, regarding your actual original question, I believe that team games are the best way to go, but expect to be playing for a few years, as having multiple players does tend to stretch out a turn as they pass the file around amongst the team.