Bunkers Trenches Improved Positions

[typhoon]

One thing I have often wondered is the rationale behind the downgrading of these positions when vacated. It is probably something really simple but I must confess to never really understanding the why?

[Fortynslow]

One thing I have often wondered is the rationale behind the downgrading of these positions when vacated. It is probably something really simple but I must confess to never really understanding the why?

The attacker is typically moving in the opposite direction as the defender, meaning, if the attacker would need to take up a defensive position against the enemy's counterattack, the fortifications would be orientated in the wrong direction.   Bunkers only point in one direction, reverse slope positions become front slope positions, defensive positions sited against likely avenues of approach from one direction are not necessarily oriented towards likely avenues of approach from the other direction.  If anything, in my opinion, 50% is probably too beneficial.

[typhoon]

Thanks for the reply. That makes sense for the position changing hands but does not explain why an engineer unit can build a trench to 40% move two hexes away to build another and unless the first trench is still occupied it would loose 50% of its defensive bonus. So preparing advanced defensive positions is much harder unless you have the spare units to fill them immediately.

[Dog Soldier]

In addition to what Fortynslow said, obstacles like barbed wire, damage to the position from the bombardment and / or the fight to take the position degrades the position for immediate defense.  The unit can dig deeper, move the wire, move the materials of a road block to another place in the hex or place small mines, etc. from materials in the hex or from the units on hand stores when using the "digging In" command to make the position ready again in a different direction.

Engineers carry in the unit's vehicles, or can readily obtain what is needed to make the position upgraded from lowercase to uppercase in game turns.  This is nor always an immediate next turn task.  Try it with D or E Morale engineers!

Do not confuse the marching engineers with those with transport for any engineer unit can get what it needs to improve a recently taken position from the enemy by calling up the vehicles with their equipment, specialized tools etc to the do the job that are not represented in the game at this scale. Imagine the same with where does the ammo come from?

Dog Soldier

[Elxaime]

The degradation of fortifications when someone moves across them has become a hoary tradition in Panzer Campaigns. No explanation is needed - it just is. Similar to how your army forgets the locations of its own minefields once they are no longer in the line of sight of your units.

[Mr Grumpy]

The degradation of fortifications when someone moves across them has become a hoary tradition in Panzer Campaigns.  

I thought I read in one of the WDS blogs that this was being looked at, my memory is not what it was but was it a change that if a fortification was on a road and a unit moved through the hex in T mode it would not be degraded?

Perhaps someone else read this as well

[typhoon]

The degradation of fortifications when someone moves across them has become a hoary tradition in Panzer Campaigns.  

I thought I read in one of the WDS blogs that this was being looked at, my memory is not what it was but was it a change that if a fortification was on a road and a unit moved through the hex in T mode it would not be degraded?

Perhaps someone else read this as well

[typhoon]

The degradation of fortifications when someone moves across them has become a hoary tradition in Panzer Campaigns.  

I thought I read in one of the WDS blogs that this was being looked at, my memory is not what it was but was it a change that if a fortification was on a road and a unit moved through the hex in T mode it would not be degraded?

Perhaps someone else read this as well

Yes I think this is part of the 4.05 patch. I’m not certain how it will apply however to a unit building a defensive position then vacating that position to build another for the frontline units to fall back to

[Steel God]

The degradation of fortifications when someone moves across them has become a hoary tradition in Panzer Campaigns.  

I thought I read in one of the WDS blogs that this was being looked at, my memory is not what it was but was it a change that if a fortification was on a road and a unit moved through the hex in T mode it would not be degraded?

Perhaps someone else read this as well

Yes I think this is part of the 4.05 patch. I’m not certain how it will apply however to a unit building a defensive position then vacating that position to build another for the frontline units to fall back to

It won't, unless the Bunker built is on a road (or perhaps more importantly and the real reason the rule is being changed, is per-existing and on a road).

[Plain Ian]

My understanding why positions downgrade when evacuated is down to maintenance. If a position is not occupied then its defenses are not being maintained or kept ready, so they degrade slightly. 

So if you leave a Trench (-40%), it becomes a Trench (-20%) for both sides.

Since I'm not in the military/armed forces then I do not know how realistic this is but as Elxaime says that's the rules.

Having said this I'd prefer that friendly fortifications retain the same defense levels if they are evacuated but subsequently reoccupied by friendly forces. IF they are occupied first by enemy forces THEN then they downgrade.

But its not a big issue for me.