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CMBB v CMAK
07-15-2007, 01:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 07-15-2007, 02:53 PM by Mad Russian.)
#41
RE: CMBB v CMAK
The piece of the puzzle that you are missing, in Soviet early war effectiveness, is the Luftwaffe. Not the superiority of the German tank force itself.

Again, the Germans, and especially your friend Guderian, considered a tank's speed as great a weapon as it's gun. The Germans blew a hole in the Soviet lines and poured the tanks through it. When the Soviets were trying to counter that blow the Luftwaffe broke up their tank concentrations and disrupted the counterattack. Allowing German armor to fight the Soviet tank formations piecemeal. Making them much easier to destroy.

Here is a comment on just how tough the Soviet armor proved to be at times...

III Mechanized Corps tanks, T-26's and BT's, proved surprisingly difficult for the Germans to destroy but heavy attacks by the Luftwaffe depleted their strength and prevented the Russian attacks from being properly coordinated.

The anti-tank and tank crews of the 7th Panzer Division were then able to outmaneuver and outshoot the disorganized Russians.

8 July 1941 Senno....Despite little protection from the air, and a tendency to use their tanks in the usual piecemeal groups, the two Corps(V and VII Mech Corps) managed to advance on Senno but then they ran into the northern spearheads of Panzer Group 2. By the 8th a major series of tank battles was in progress. These Soviet crews were seasoned veterans who handled their tanks with some skill. (Guderian remarking that this was the only time in the early months where the Soviets handled their armor with skill.) At the first clash the advancing Germans ran into a well laid and camouflaged tank ambush. The Soviet tanks attacked the German flanks and tried to take the enemy in the rear. The Germans still retained a tactical edge but this was countered by the T-34's robustness and heavy firepower. One shrugged off the attention of four PzIII's and then, despite being hit several times drove straight over a 37mm antitank gun. This particular tank motored for more than nine miles deep into the German rear unitl, despite it's wide tracks it got stuck in marshy ground and was finished off by a 100mm heavy gun.


and then there is this quote...

The T-34's proved rather more impressive. One of the first examples encountered in the south stood up to no less than twenty-three 37mm hits without any damage. Only the 24th round aimed at the turret ring jammed the turret and forced the Soviet tank to withdraw.

When you consider that 2/3 of the German tank force was armed with 37mm guns or SMALLER you begin to get the idea of just how powerful an opponent the T-34 was.

Good Hunting.

MR
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Messages In This Thread
CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-03-2007, 04:29 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Colonel Talvela - 07-03-2007, 04:49 AM
RE:��CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-03-2007, 01:19 PM
RE: ��CMBB v CMAK - by Copper - 07-03-2007, 03:12 PM
RE:����CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-04-2007, 02:32 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-08-2007, 01:17 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mike Abberton - 07-03-2007, 04:59 AM
RE:��CMBB v CMAK - by Colonel Talvela - 07-03-2007, 06:08 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by bluehand - 07-03-2007, 06:05 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mike Abberton - 07-03-2007, 06:39 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by MGK(FGM) - 07-03-2007, 06:54 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mike Abberton - 07-03-2007, 11:24 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by MGK(FGM) - 07-03-2007, 11:44 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mike Abberton - 07-04-2007, 01:32 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by MGK(FGM) - 07-04-2007, 02:11 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Grumlin - 07-04-2007, 06:49 PM
RE:��CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-05-2007, 04:55 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-05-2007, 09:47 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-12-2007, 06:10 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-12-2007, 12:42 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-12-2007, 04:28 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-12-2007, 04:57 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-13-2007, 05:17 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-14-2007, 10:44 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Ratzki - 07-13-2007, 06:00 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-14-2007, 10:52 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by bluehand - 07-14-2007, 05:20 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-14-2007, 06:43 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-14-2007, 11:01 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-14-2007, 11:04 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-14-2007, 09:04 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 12:07 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-15-2007, 08:50 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 01:25 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-14-2007, 11:58 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 12:28 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-15-2007, 07:43 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 01:58 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-15-2007, 09:11 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 01:56 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Von Earlmann - 07-15-2007, 08:50 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 01:36 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 09:24 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 09:50 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 12:39 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 01:01 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-15-2007, 09:06 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 01:52 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 01:32 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 01:46 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-15-2007, 06:01 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-15-2007, 07:17 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Risnervich - 07-15-2007, 08:26 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Tanker - 07-16-2007, 01:20 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by kineas - 07-16-2007, 02:12 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 06:07 AM
RE:�� CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-16-2007, 07:12 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 07:37 AM
RE:���� CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-16-2007, 09:30 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 03:42 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-16-2007, 03:07 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 06:35 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 07:11 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-16-2007, 07:57 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 08:28 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-16-2007, 03:46 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-16-2007, 10:31 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Chipmunk - 07-16-2007, 10:59 PM
RE:�� CMBB v CMAK - by Mike Abberton - 07-17-2007, 04:11 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-17-2007, 07:53 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 09:55 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-17-2007, 08:05 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 09:58 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 11:01 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-17-2007, 02:41 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 03:19 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-17-2007, 06:07 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 10:26 PM
RE:���� CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-18-2007, 06:51 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by PoorOldSpike - 07-17-2007, 03:56 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by PoorOldSpike - 07-17-2007, 04:13 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by PoorOldSpike - 07-17-2007, 04:18 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-17-2007, 10:35 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by PoorOldSpike - 07-18-2007, 01:11 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-18-2007, 01:38 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-18-2007, 03:03 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by PoorOldSpike - 07-18-2007, 02:52 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Copper - 07-18-2007, 04:34 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Nikita - 07-18-2007, 06:25 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-18-2007, 11:25 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by The Coil - 07-24-2007, 06:29 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-24-2007, 11:40 AM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by McIvan - 07-24-2007, 12:04 PM
RE: CMBB v CMAK - by Mad Russian - 07-25-2007, 02:26 PM

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