CMBB v CMAK

[Mad Russian]

To put my own point of view only, and not to disparage yours, since it is all subjective, to me the backbone holds the body together. For example, the backbone of German armour was the Panzer IV, not the King Tiger. The PzIV was the main part.

Thus I would not consider that the backbone of the Red Army was comprised of such a small element.

Anways, we can move on from that, now that it is clear where people were coming from.

I agree. Now that we know the two very different definitions we can at least move on.

Re your earlier posts, I think you are still fixated on T34s when they weren't the main Russian tank. We were, I thought, talking about the commencement of hostilities. The PzII was just fine for killing Russian T26, T35, Bt5, BT7, armoured cars, T60. That was the vast majority of the Russian tank force....wasn't it? I'm sure it was.

I'm fixated on the T-34 because that's what this whole discussion started with. Of course the T-34 and KV-1's were not the most numerous. There were depending on whose numbers you use from 17,000 to 20,000 Soviet tanks on day one. Only roughly 800 of those were T-34 and KV-1's. As has been mentioned. That leaves a tremendous tank force that the German armor can deal with at least on even terms. The T-26 gun is under modeled in CMBB. Good tactics can help that though. Any and all guns in CMBB can for the most part kill from flank or rear. The 1941 Soviet 45mm ATG will kill a King Tiger from flank or rear given the chance.

The vast majority of the German tank force was superior to the average Russian tank. Radios made it even more so, training adds another order of magnitude.

I agree in principle to that. The T-26 could easily defend itself against any of the German armor except the PzIII's. That is 2/3 of the whole force.

I acknowledge that CMBB is not the be all and end all in comparing performance.

Some gamers get really taken with the issues that are wrong with the CM games. They have gotten so much right it's expected that they get a few t things wrong. Even then....again, good tactics can make up for the deficiencies. The biggest performance issues are on front armour. Shoot at them from the side or rear and they all die.

No need btw for you to follow through with your kind offer to list Russian brigade TOEs Grand totals on the day Barbarossa commenced woud be interesting though, if you had the time....specifically the proportion of T34/KV to the other lighter tanks.

You want the grand total of each type available on day one? All tank types? I'll have to check some of Glantz's facts and figures to see what he has to say about that.

There are only a very few Tank Brigade TO&E's for the Soviets. They didn't change up their basic formations very often. We can leave that for a later discussion though.

Good Hunting.

MR