CMBB v CMAK

[Mad Russian]

Well, finally i found something, unfortunately not in English or German, but I'll continue digging.

Panther:

Surely, engineers were closely co-operating with the military personell and formed up a specialised commision, which visited the front, where Guderian was present and made his statements (Oct. 18, 1941). I have all his memo on subject....

Why was there a need for a specialized commission if the Panther was coming anyway? Because it wasn't.

Hitler personally worked closely with the project, and was focusing engineers on armament and penetration capacity to withstand future Allied designs. F.e. he personally considered frontal armor of 80mm being not enough and requested to thick it up to 100mm, which is overkill for any Soviet tank or anti-tank gun at a time. This was stated by him on July 4, 1942.

I pointed out earlier that it was on Hitler's orders that the Panther went into production. Again, why would thy build a better that wasn't better? Of course a new tank would be superior to any existing tank not just be it's equal.

Generally:
Germans already considered rearmament of their panzer divisions and unification of tank design. Since they met Allied tanks of improved armor and maingun, and considered, that tanks may become heavier and better armored in the future, they changed their projects accordingly, so to say to jump ahead of time, i.e. have superiority over both existing Allied tanks, and future designs.

Yes, all models of the PzIII/IV were upgraded with better tank killing guns. A fact you don't want to acknowledge now. The PzIII moved up to a 75mm gun and the PzIV was continually upgraded with a longer barreled 75mm gun. All to be able to kill tanks better. Not the infantry mission you proposed earlier in the thread.

But none of the projects in panther development history was specifically designed against T-34. As I stated previously, it was a pre-planned upgrade,

You keep stating it but you haven't brought out a single source that shows it that can be verified by anyone other than you.

revised according to findings at the front towards increase of its combat qualities. But this increase, introduction of Panther maingun, thick slopped armor was not direct result of T-34. Main conserns were related to the future possible trends in Allied tank building.

REVISED ACCORDING TO FINDINGS AT THE FRONT?????? You have said repeatedly that the T-34 had no influence on the Panthers design. So then, what findings at the front exactly are you referring to here?

As I stated, the only feature, "copied from T-34", was introduction of slopped armor, which was rather unusual engineering decision for German hull design.

I never said the Panther copied anything from the T-34. I said it was developed as a direct result of the T-34 superiority over other German tanks. I said that the Germans asked that the T-34 be copied until a better German tank could be made. I said that the Panther was not being planned until the German tanks ran into the T-34 and they needed a better tank. Then the Panther was designed and put into production.

French were applying idea of slopped armor at several tanks, ex. FCM-36

I'm thinking you keep bringing this up because you think somewhere in here I give somebody credit for sloped armour? I said the T-34 was the best tank at the time of it's appearance. Sloped armour was a part of the reason for that. I'm okay with the French getting credit for inventing it if you are.

As for matilda, it is a separate topic and I suggest to froze discussion on it for the moment to prevent flooding. I doubt you are right about infantry support tank concept (how English people understood it when Matilda was under development), though.

The question of Matilda is very simple. You side step it since there can only be one conclusion. What other use would a tank have that is armed with a gun that only fires antitank rounds except to kill other tanks?

Answer...there is no other reason. Therefore by intent Matilda was designed as a tank destroyer. Yes, I know, it wasn't fast. Yes, I know, it had MG's. Yes, I know, it was intended to give the infantry a defense against enemy tanks.

Good Hunting.

MR