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Combat on the Russian Front
07-23-2007, 01:54 AM, (This post was last modified: 07-23-2007, 03:53 AM by Mad Russian.)
#4
RE: Combat on the Russian Front
bluehand Wrote:I think the most CM relevant thing in all CM battle recreations on the eastern front is to remember that most german formations would be best represented as units that were weakened and at only 70% full staff. I know most will cry foul but the germans really were bled white from 43 on and were suffering heavily even before that, with few exceptions and most of those are propaganda. The Russians suffered suffered heavily which is why the troops are treated as a level less experienced than they were on paper. but people miss construe that in designing scenarios and include fresh troops as conscript rather than green, forgetting that the game already takes the russian inexperience into account.

22 June 1941 the Germans were pretty much at full strength.

There is alot of historical data on June 1941 material here:

TPG Research Section

After the very first day the German formations started being like most combat units. A "normal" combat unit would rarely be above 70% operational. The Germans as time went on would be even less.

I would think that there would be an operational strength vs TO&E strength of roughly 80% from August 1941 - December 1941. 70% for all of 1942 and up to mid 1943. After Kursk 1943 it should drop to 60%. In 1944 it should be roughly 50%. in 1945 it should be 40% or lower.

Now that is just a rough estimate. There are times and places where that would change. BOTH INCREASE AND DECREASE!! Not just increase.


Again CM in QB's doesn't control that. And when you are buying units it has little relevance. But in scenarios it has alot of relevance.

Quote:I recently played a scenario called "the Seam" and while the troops were conscript, I suspect that by the soviet army standards they were actually green if not better. to put troops that unskilled against veteren troops even romanian and italian, is mistake even the soviet command wouldn't make. historically I believe the romanians and italians were routed but in the scenario there is little possibility of that happenning. especially when the germans get a full tiger platoon as reinforcements...

The Soviets June - September 1941 would absolutely have the problem of sending conscript infantry into battle. The Axis Minors should rarely be above average for those same time periods though and they could be considered green or conscript as well. The Germans would average Veteran or higher though.

You can see some Nationality modifiers that I use as a general guideline for making my scenarios here:

MR's CMBB Nationality Traits

Good Hunting.

MR
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Messages In This Thread
Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-22-2007, 02:17 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-22-2007, 03:51 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by bluehand - 07-22-2007, 04:13 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 01:54 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 02:00 AM
RE:��Combat on the Russian Front - by McIvan - 07-23-2007, 06:58 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 07:14 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Ratzki - 07-23-2007, 04:08 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 05:59 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Vartuoosi - 07-23-2007, 07:27 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 09:00 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Ratzki - 07-23-2007, 09:05 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 09:43 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 02:19 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Ratzki - 07-23-2007, 03:11 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-23-2007, 03:33 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Vartuoosi - 07-24-2007, 12:42 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-24-2007, 04:17 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-24-2007, 11:45 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Stndrtnfhr - 07-25-2007, 02:25 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-25-2007, 02:30 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-25-2007, 12:12 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-26-2007, 09:52 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-27-2007, 01:58 PM
RE:��Combat on the Russian Front - by Walkure - 07-28-2007, 01:53 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-28-2007, 02:07 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-27-2007, 12:54 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-28-2007, 11:59 AM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by McIvan - 07-28-2007, 12:50 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-28-2007, 01:23 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Walkure - 07-28-2007, 02:32 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Mad Russian - 07-28-2007, 03:06 PM
RE: Combat on the Russian Front - by Walkure - 07-28-2007, 03:13 PM

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