Why I miss old clickies: a lament...

[RedDevil]

...so far there's not been much beneficial talk :) just personal gyrations of not being able to give clickies multiple times at least that's all I'm seeing so far?

I think if you go back and read my initial few posts in this thread, you get some good arguments for the benefits of multiple clickies. I shall spare everyone and not repost them again. Of course, one man's reasoned arguement is another man's personal gyration... ;)

A change to the clickie code might take minutes or months.. I don't know...

That's why I'm not optimistic about a public opinion poll producing any changes. It's going to come down to a decision by those who have to do the work. I've presented what I think are good reasons for returning to some aspects of the old way. I think there has been general agreement that the old way was better in the respects mentioned.

I would not mind the return to some parts of the old way, with some additions of the new way added in. However, I do feel that abuse of the system will continue to arouse subjective discussions amongst the natives no matter what give and take is managed in the end. :)

There never was abuse much of the old system. Just POS claiming abuse because he got red repped. Which was really just the system functioning the way it was supposed to.

The biggest grief issue is the anonymous factor, The biggest abuse issue is the buddy system and the major issue overall is security of the club being breached by making changes to the code.

I care less about any personal or abusive issues than I do about the security of the club. Abuse and personal issues can be handled alot differently than security issues.
Hopefully, this isn't viewed as a hard-line or dictatorship like attitude.

Nope, not at all. I'm in complete agreement. The loss of anonymity is a good thing, reins in (potential) abuse. The buddy thing could be prevented with some sort of one clickie per person per week rule, or a must give clickies to 3 other people before you can give another to the same person rule or something. The key feature of the old system in my opinion, is the ability to give multiple clickies if a person does multiple things deserving of them...

I'm also pointing out that the topic hasn't developed into the debate of the pros and cons of either clickie system, past personal preferences or issues.

I think there's been quite a bit of discussion in this thread about the pros and cons of both systems, personal preferences, and other issues. I guess I'm not quite sure what you're looking for (not in an annoyed way at all...I just think the basic issues were laid out in the first 4 pages of this thread). I think it's telling that most of the opinions expressed were in favor of a return to multiple clickies. There haven't really been any voices in favor of the new one clickie system (except maybe you, RD...and I think there are ways to get around the abuse while retaining the benefits of multiple clickes, as I mentioned above).

What is the benefit of allowing multiple clickies, as opposed to 1 opinion rating per member.
How is the giving of more clickies promoting more posting and member interaction.

Addressed extensively in my first two posts.

What is the benefit of hiding the rep point giver from the receiving member?

Aren't any I can think of

What methods are going to prevent abuse of the mulitple clickie giving between members who simply give them without regards to the overall purpose of the system?

I mentioned a few above, but it's probably up to whoever does the coding and what is possible.

What is/are the fault(s) of the reputation system and is it/they correctable?

That's what this whole thread has been about.

What is the benefit of starting everyone over from scratch with the new system?

Also addressed in my first two posts...

These are some of the questions that should be under debate.

They sort of are under debate, just nobody has really disagreed with my positions as I've outlined them.

This is really going to be more about "what do those making the decisions and running the website find compelling as an argument". If you guys think it's worth doing, do it. If not, don't. I think I've made a strong argument for the lost features of old clickies promoting a more active board. Nobody has disagreed with this argument (again, except maybe you, RD).

Anyway, I here leave it up to better men to decide. Baby was born, my time is limited... Long live clickies!

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I've never said I was 100 % behind the new system. I do like a few features inclusive of the system tho. Mainly preventing buddy abuse, in which friends give each other clickies just for showing up on the forums today and anonymous clickies. I also don't know if anything can be adjusted or changed to suit a mixture of features.

Asking for the trust of members to not abuse clickie giving for multiple actions of worthiness as compared to simply spreading them in good cheer for the pure act of sake, is a thin patch of ice or a slippery slope so to speak in terms of maintenance.
Prevention methods would be viewed as a dictatorship in growth and subjected to circumstantial pleadings by the guilty when questioned, leading to more maintenance than necessarily needed or wanted.
Many people are honest, its the few that aren't that make the headaches.

So if we can give the the ability to spread clickies freely, will members abide and handle the responsibility as adults? What kind of assurances can be offered to rectify this? I don't mind the 20 or so emails a week I get about club questions and issues, but if they suddenly grow in double or triple size and are relative to clickies, then it becomes something of an irritant. :rolleyes:

The anonymous issues, is certainly a mute point with the new system, nothing is sacred or hidden now. Anyone who felt that keeping the clickie givers hidden was a plus, certainly hasn't spoken up at all.

As for your suggesting that the clickies system is making the posting counts here go up or down, I find that completely unsubstantiated and feel many other effects are in play for the slow down of posts in the club overall. I'll even contest that most of the members here that utilize the rep system are not affected or influenced in making their posts here by this. Claiming that a new clickie system is the downfall of our community and thus reducing members' interactions with each other is simply preposterous.
Summer time, vacations, real life issues, old game syndrome, new game releases.. no mention of these "real" effects being of influence tends to steer the momentum away from the suggestive clickies are the reason theme.

All older game forums are slow, any game that is 5 years old is not going to have a lively community outside of newcomers asking questions and opponent searches. What is the expectation for any forum to reasonably thrive, a year past the game release? 2 years? most don't make it 6 months.
TheBlitz has been here since 1999 and all the game forums still carry a large community here. CS was a major carrier of the Club, but only now because of the Matrix re-birthing has that area livened up again. without that, only the SP and HPS forums would be alive due to new game releases. The CM forums here are consistent, but they are not dead. CM-SF was our hope to spark more life here and it has failed for the time being and I don't see it generating much life anyways. I have been wrong before tho :)

To expect the CM community to get a major rise of activity without any releasing of new components is wishful thinking, to suggest it would get a rise from a clickie system revamp is plain silly.

Here's my take on the questions I asked

What is the benefit of allowing multiple clickies, as opposed to 1 opinion rating per member.
No real benefits, as it is not substantiated that clickies increase or decrease any activity amongst members in posting or doing samaritan tasks. I feel members post when they feel like it and always strive to help each other out irregardless if they were getting a clickie or not.
1 rating of a person should be enough to show your feelings about them. In the past system, this was questioned, but not enforced upon.

I'm not against multiple rewards as long as there are limits on how often they can be given by the same member. Giving out multiple clickies can be abused, but with limits, perhaps acceptable.

How is the giving of more clickies promoting more posting and member interaction.
If members are simply wanting clickies in order to do something around here, then it's time to shut the place down.
TheBlitz was not built on clickies it was built on membership loyalty and common interests. I don't see any ties between the clickie system and Blitz livelihood.

What is the benefit of hiding the rep point giver from the receiving member?
I don't see any other than prevention of sparring matches exploding, which is the responsibility of moderators to stop anyways.

What methods are going to prevent abuse of the multiple clickie giving between members who simply give them without regards to the overall purpose of the system?
Suggestions? or perhaps this wasn't even given a thought? I saw mention there MIGHT be a way around this, but no solid ground. I know how it is handled now and would have to resort to the same methods unless other ways are more convincing.

What is/are the fault(s) of the reputation system and is it/they correctable?
The biggest fault lies in the misconstrued concept that rep points actually count for anything more than a common rating of how people might feel about your actions past and present. To some they are rewards for action, but this dulls them and they become worthless in terms of value, due to excessiveness. Some claim they are special, but since anyone can give them out, they are a common as potatoes. Some claim they are incentives, but they might start to look like bribes just to get things to happen with repetitive use.
No one will be happy with the reps or without them, it's a typical human trait to find fault with even the simplest of things, all for the sake of debate.

What is the benefit of starting everyone over from scratch with the new system?
I see none, as older members have earned their reps over the last several years. To restart them in favor of new members or even because of a new system is like telling a General he's back in KP duty, because we have a new pay scale. Where do new members earn the right to obtain equal rep points without even putting forth the time and efforts of the older members who have already posted all their tips and helpful advice time and time again?


Whether or not coding changes to facilitate adapting certain features of both old and new systems is possible, lies entirely in the hands of Raz :)


So to close my book here I say this.
Clickies are only as important as folks make them out to be. :whis: