Were the Germans really that good?

[Steel God]

I'll grant you that the Bulge was doomed to failure from conception, but you're missing the point. What other Army in the world, could have gone through 1944 and suffered the twin disasters of D-Day in the East, and the destruction of Army Group Center in the East, and still possessed the discipline to even put together an operation like Bulge, let alone execute it in a some what effective manner? To reverse roles, it's the equivilant of the Japanese beating up on the US and UK for 6 months in early 1942, and the Americans responding with the battle of Leyte Gulf.

Hmm. let's see ...

The British in 1940? Kicked all over the place for almost the whole year, and respnd with ... COMPASS.

No? What about the British again, in 1941? Kicked all over the Med for most of the year, and respond with ... CRUSADER.

No? Hmm, ok, let's try the Russians. Kicked all over the park from June to December 1941, then counter-attack against German forces outside Moscow.

No? Ok, what about the Russians in 1942? Kicked all over the park at Kharkov, in the Crimea, then again in Case BLUE, and they respond with ... URANUS.

No? Well, what about the British again - in 1942 they get kicked all over the park in North Africa, the Atlantic, and in Asia, and they respond with ... LIGHTFOOT and SUPERCHARGE.

Still no? Ok, what about the Americans then? Kicked all over the Pacific for six months, and they respond with ... the Battle of Midway and WATCHTOWER.

Jon;

Midway was no victory of training, but a victory of intelligence, and I believe even the most casual student of WWII probably knows that.

In regards to the British operations in North Africa, well frankly, victories in NA (for either side) were pretty close to meaningless in the big picture. The battles you are talking about were fought with a couple of divisions, and hardly worthy of inclusion of a big picture discussion, no matter how meaningful on a tactical level (and this is coming from a HUGE fan of the NA Campaign).

As for the Russian Counter attacks in 41 and 42, these are valid points and worthy of discussion. One could make the argument that given the relative strengths between the Germans and Russians in terms of manpower, the Russians should have never been in the position to counter attack I suppose. But they were, and they did, but again, given the huge size of the Russian Army, are their counter attacks in 41 and 42 really that surprising?

Paul