here ya go,e entire email exchange where you accuse me of lying.
here's the entire exchange start from the bottom.
==================
it was no courtesy I did it because I felt sorry for you, but you’re welcome anyways
I didn’t lie but you did and I offered the email exchange to anyone who questions me about it
Of course you disagree; you want to save face here from looking like an arse, it’s hard not to when your ego is as big as yours.
Yes, I’ll offer the scenarios to anyone who wants them to play. I might even sell them on ebay.
Cheers
Randy Plume
ICQ 8646843
*********************************
www.tedebearscorner.com
http://members.myactv.net/~rplume/
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Overton [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 1:37 AM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: Thank You Very Much!
I see that you have found the courtesy to remove my scenarios from the Blitz Wargaming site. Thank you very much.
I also see that you couldn't resist lying about our conversation. I have posted my rebutal to you on the web sites I do frequent. You will notice that I disagree with almost every statement you made.
I also find it interesting that you plan on personally distrubuting the scenarios I asked you to stop giving out on the website. Do you have some kind of rationale behind that you would care to share with me?
Steve Overton
Randy Plume
ICQ 8646843
*********************************
www.tedebearscorner.com
http://members.myactv.net/~rplume/
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Overton [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:11 PM
To: RedDevil FGM
Subject: [SPAM]We need to talk.....
Okay then. Here is the list you requested.
Scenarios Currently Available Played
CSDT B17 American Tanks 0
HSG AG Berezina Ballet 1
HSG AG Steamroller 5
HSG AG The Panthers Roll 9
HSG AG7 Flexing Their Claws 10
HSG Dangerous Information 4
HSG EW A Tiger By The Tail 3
HSG EW Aus Die Traum 4
HSG EW Hedgehogs H2H 3
HSG EW King of the Hill 1
HSG EW SS Eagles 3
HSG EW The Dinosaurs Eat The Eggs 1
HSG EW The Gestapo Building 1
HSG EW The Mythical Beast 3
HSG EW Tooth and Nail 1
HSG EW1 Porsch Tank Killers 3
HSG KC Major Bake 1
HSG KH Bloody Road 4
HSG KSK Front in Flames 1
# of Times played on the Blitz 58
No Longer Available:
CSDT AG1 Sgt Feibecke at Ozero 1
CSDT AG3 Flak Dance Vilna 1
CSDT B15 Firestorm at Glinki 1
CSDT SH6-Baptism of Fire 3 2
CSDT Stalins Knights Cross 3
CSDT-B11 Fight for Glinki 1
CSDT-B12 Plugging the Gap 1
CSDT-B13 Para's in the North 1
CSDT-B21-Slugfest at Senno 2
CSDT-B7 GD Goes to School 1
CSDT-SH10-Chuikovs Problem 4
CSDT-SH12- A Soviet Hero 1
CSDT-SH7-Veterans 2
CSDT-SH8-Breakkthrough 1
CSDT-SH9-Gusow Road 2
HSG AG Anniversary 2
HSG AG Battle near Lenin 1
HSG AG4 The Crossroads 4
HSG EW Homecoming 3
HSG KH3 Rear Guard 2
HSG KH4 A Small Victory 2
HSG KH5 R meets R 1
HSG Ksk cat and mouse 1
# of Times played on the Blitz 40
Never Made Available
HSG AG Tired Old Tigers 4
HSG EW Into Germany H2H 2
HSG KC Sgt Primozic 0
# of Times played on the Blitz 6
So, here's the breakdown for you:
Scenarios that I have currently available for download on sites I put them on:
19 scenarios played 58 times.
Scenarios I do not have available for download on sites I put them on:
23 scenarios played a total of 40 times.
Scenarios that have NEVER been made availaboe for me for download on sites I put them on: 3 scenarios played 6 times.
The Scenarios I put on the internet are on 4 sites. I chose all of them. I did not choose the Blitz. You are giving away 26 of my scenarios that I have either, never had on the internet or have pulled them because I didn't like the way they play. You have 19 of my scenarios that I have on other websites that I monitor to see what response I get on them and if they need updating.
That is a total of 45 of my scenarios that you have on your site that have been played 104 times with my knowledge or any feedback from you at all.
As to not being able to find my scenarios you're telling me you can't do an author search on the site?
As to your not being able to find me not only is my email address in every scenario BUT I am a very active member of both The Scenario Depot II and The Proving Grounds. I go by Mad Russian at both sites. I'm very easy to find. You didn't try.
The three scenarios that you have that were never released to the public actually came from The Proving Grounds. A site specifically designed for PLAYTESTING! Not the release of finished scenarios. Yet magically you have these scenarios on your site.
See my answers to your comments below.
Steve Overton
RedDevil FGM <
[email protected]> wrote:
Answered below
Randy Plume
ICQ 8646843
*********************************
www.tedebearscorner.com
http://members.myactv.net/~rplume/
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Overton [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 12:21 AM
To: RedDevil FGM
Subject: We need to talk.....
Excuse me.
The scenarios we are talking about are mine. I'm surprised you don't know who I am you have my scenarios prominently displayed on your website.
I don’t know steve overton
I don’t know who you are or what scenarios are yours
You provide me with a list of your stuff that we have available for downloads and I’ll remove them if you don’t want us hosting them
I would think that anyone whose work you didn't know you wouldn't be putting on your website. And since I asked you multiple times who the website owner was and you continue to discuss this with me you take full legal responsibility. You can see the list above.
The common courtesy in the CM community is to let someone know what use you are making of their work. I think that you will find that there are limits to public domain.
This is a common courtesy, not a legal binding one, and without knowledge or a proper contact point, impossible to follow thru with.
You have this backwards. It is not common courtesy for you to ask me to put them on your site. It is common courtesy for me to say that you can. I control where my scenarios go that is not for public use. The scenarios are there for anyone to play. Not use as they want. If as you say, the Blitz is just doing business as normal why then are only CM scenarios by outside authors offered for download but none of the other games scenarios? And why do you have "custom scenarios" that are not available for download?
My scenarios are all "custom scenarios" and I have taught alot of your members how to make theirs better! My scenarios have been put on BFC Combat Mission game disks and I don't particularly want them scattered all over to the winds in places I don't even know about.
You have access to the BFC boards, The Scenario Depot, The Scenario Depot II, The Proving Grounds and all other places the CM community meets. In none of these places have I ever seen that the Blitz uploads scenarios without letting the scenario designer know they are there. People from my own group ask if we can use our own group scenarios for ANYTHING!
That’s great, but when the emails listed in the scenario for contacts are not working, who do you call? Who contacted these other designers from the Blitz?
WE, The Blitz Staff, don’t contact every person individually as the staff of the club, our members simply see a scenario, and they play it, they report the game by adding specific data to our database.
There is a link to upload the scenario file for future downloads that they can use to make this scenario available to the rest of the community, via our server.
The Blitz is one of the largest CM communities on the web and many of our members are already members of the sites you mention.
I'm impressed!
At the moment I see the Blitz as a thief. One who sneaks around and uses the work of other people to get members. A cheap magazine sales trick! Do you charge a membership fee? Are people paying you for access to my scenarios?
As I recall the term you used was, " we encourage our members to bring scenarios they have played to the Blitz"....or something to that effect. I'm too lazy to look up your exact words at this moment. But I have them in the original email. Here you say you don't contact every person individually. That's not right Randy...you don't contact ANY individuals! You have 45 of my scenarios on your site. It's not like it is a single scenario. I am very well known. I am easy to find. And yet....no contact from you. Hmmmm....that's strange since you try so hard to contact people about the scenarios you steal and put up here.
It is common in the CM community to allow for the use of our works to be posted to websites that have CM gamers. When ASKED!
If you’d approached me without the attitude and forcing legalism in your 1st contact perhaps we’d be better acquainted.
I ask nicely and not smart assed here then.
If you mind that we host your scenarios on our server to better distribute them amongst the CM community, by providing access to people who are not so proficiently endeavored in searching the internet for other sites, or are loyal to our site and prefer not to join other sites?
Um Randy, you stole my scenarios and put them here without my permission. And you think I should be warm and fuzzy with that? Further more from what you are telling me you had members do this at your personal request. That too is interesting.
Again. You have this backwards. I am not supposed to have to go hunting down my scenarios on the internet like an easter egg hunt. You are supposed to come to me and see if it's okay to put my work on your site.
I'm getting fairly well acquainted with you now don't you think?
I can't imagine that the website owner knows this is going on or they wouldn't have allowed it. But since I have asked repeatedly to discuss this with them and you continue to want to deal with it I can only assume that you talk for them and their interests.
They were posted to 3 websites. The Scenario Depot, The Scenario Depot II and The Proving Grounds. These three websites are for the specific purpose of either playtesting scenarios or putting them on a website that allows downloads and then asks for and sometimes recieves reviews and AARs on them.
They are hosted at the Wargamer site as well and I can name a few other sites I’ve seen them hosted upon, but that’s not the issue here. Our members do provide you with the data you request ON YOUR SITE, after they play the games. They simply report their win/loss records here and make the scenario available to others who don’t want to join all these other sites.
Really Randy? I thought you said you don't know who I am or which of these scenarios are mine? How then, could you know which websites I have them posted to? You should also know I don't have a web site. So, where then is "ON YOUR SITE"? There are not all these other sites. Only three that I know of at this moment. They are on Wargamer,XG, The Proving Grounds and The Scenario Depot II. Any other websites my CM scenarios on them do not have my consent. I fail to see where that is your concern. I personally loaded my scenarios to those sites. Did I personally load 45 of my scenarios to your site Randy?
Your site by-passes the intent of my having my scenarios on those websites. I have no communication with your members or the site. I have no feedback or even knew of any. If I hadn't been doing research for other scenarios I wouldn't have stumbled across my own work on your site.
You have more contact than you know of and had you checked your membership ranks you’d notice there are MANY of the blitz members who are also members of the 3 aforementioned sites.
We don’t attempt to bypass anything, let alone designer intents to provide the CM community with new stuff.
How can this be true Randy? You don't know who I am remember!! Since I am not now, nor have I ever been a member of the Blitz, a fact I am proud of at the moment, how would I get all this magical support from you?
I know that TPG, and TSDII have substantial numbers of Blitz members in their membership. What has that got to do with your using my scenarios without asking?
As for the threat of your not having your members play my scenarios, I could actually care less about that. I have quite a following of gamers that do. And even if I didn't, your out right theft of my scenarios to support your website would be just as offensive as it is to me now. Maybe I start a campaign to get members to leave the Blitz, I mean if you will steal other peoples work to support your website what else will you do?
I’m sorry you perceive this hosting of your scenarios as a theft of public offered submissions. What you are claiming as theft is merely compensation and rewarding to your benefit.
Your scenarios do not support our site, we do not charge anyone to use them, and we don’t even force people to join our site just to download the material hosted.
You already have most of our members on your membership ranks, they’ll be happy to know just how you feel and what you’ve threatened our site with.
I haven't theatened your site with anything. In fact you have done all the threatening. You threatened to have my scenarios pulled and tell your members not to play them any more. You threatened this without even knowing who I am or what the issue is. All because I asked you why my scenarios are on this website. I asked you repeatedly to discuss this with the website owners. You have consistantly denied that request and taken the burden upon your own shoulders.
You have claimed repeatedly not to know who I am and yet magically you know which websites I frequent. You seem to know more about where my scenarios are to be found on the internet than I do. Which is obvious since you have 45 of them yourself.
I have no desire to fight with you. However, I put alot of work into my scenarios and the ones that my group puts out. I support the community on several levels through playtesting and reviews. I expect the same courtesy from the community when it comes to my own work as I give to others.
I have no desire to fight with you either but when you come charging in like you did, you certainly can’t expect someone to meekly allow you to impose your will upon them. You’ve threatened legal action from the 1st contact and you expect me not to retaliate in kind? I can’t believe Geordie didn’t mention that he uploaded many of your scenarios personally, and that he had stated last year that he was going to personally contact the designers about having their scenarios hosted here. Looks like he left us out in the cold, and passed the torch.
This is the part that I dislike about you the most. It is someone else's fault that this has happened. Well Randy let me tell you this, I have not been talking with Geordie about this issue I have been talking to you about it. I have an issue with how my scenarios got on the site. You claim no knowledge of that. And yet after reading all of your email here you obviously are the guy in charge at the moment until the real owner reappears.
First, I never threatened legal action. I asked if you understood the legal ramificiations of what you are doing? There is a BIG difference there. I expect most people to be able to tell the difference in a question and a direct threat of a law suite.
I will impose my will where my work is involved. Whether you like it or not. If you think that the "Public Domain" issue is one you can win then you're in good shape aren't you? If you want to bad mouth me at Blitz you can do that I'm sure. However, whatever it is you decide to do, please don't put words into my mouth about what it is I did or said,. I have the emails right here.
What I expected was you to say that there had been a misunderstanding that you wished for my scenarios to stay on your site not get in my face about how my scenarios belonged to you or whoever else wanted them. How did you expect me to react to that?
Does your site allow for AAR's and reviews? Or do you just do this rating system that I found my scenarios listed on. Do you charge a membership fee of any kind?
Yes, we provide area for AARs, reviews and we have our own rating system as well. We even have our own playtesting area for member submitted scenarios.
No we do not charge any membership fees; we are a privately owned site that accepts donations to pay server costs.
So where do I find these AAR's and reviews...which if I remember correctly earlier you denied having. That all of the reviews and AAR's went to "YOUR OWN WEBSITE" I believe your words were....
Free access with donations is the common practice for CM community websites.
Is the real person I should be talking with Jim Mays who seems to be unavailable? I have no real desire to talk with someone that has no other function than to get in other peoples faces about some thing when you are the ones that are wrong. I asked you if you were the website owner. Are you?
Jim is in Iraq trying to stay alive, he won’t be available until after August, hopefully.
Well you should have worded your initial threats a bit differently if you didn’t want a retaliatory in your face response.
We mean no harm or foul and look to gain nothing from hosting anyone’s’ materials, a simple heads up from the designer usually gets things sorted.
So any progress past this email is up to you. I’ll gladly do what ever you want in relation to your scenarios.
Again I didn't threaten you. I mearly asked you a question. Why did you get so defensive about that? Your attitude of "Kiss My Ass, I can do anything I want with your scenarios" didn't take you a long way either.
And yet again...it is not the designers place to have to go around the internet giving out permission slips for people to use their materials. A word about public domain for privately manufactured materials. Look what happened to the free give away sites for music.
I don't expect you are. That's why I asked the question. Third in command as you describe yourself doesn't necessarily mean I have found a decision maker.
I’m about a close to a decision maker as you’re going to find right now so if you want them removed say so and provide me with a list of them, and I will take care of the issue.
I have no desire to have my scenarios on multiple websites. I can't update them and watch them. At The Scenario Depot II they are easily updated and controlled. I have the ability to remove those that don't do well, that I can't fix, and I am a pretty good scenario designer even if I do say so myself, or to put an updated version on there. You have scenarios on the Blitz that never even made it out of playtest.
That is definately not acceptable!
So now my reputation on the Blitz is being made with scenarios I didn't think were even good enough to release to the general CM Community! I feel real good about that.
You have the list. Remove them.
So, if you please, would you kindly answer the original questions....
Is the Blitz website your website?
No, not yet it isn’t.
Oh, well maybe someday you'll be lucky and own it. Then these little issues can be yours from the beginning.
If it is not, how do I get in touch with the owner? He’s in Iraq, I doubt you can get in touch with him as the rest of us haven’t been able to since February of last year.
I'm sure you're doing a fine job in his absence.
Please don't make idle threats to me about the use of my own property.
What idle threats did I imply?
You’re the only one making threats, I will inform the Blitz CM community of your actions here, not threaten you with the act of.
So what ever you want to do here, we’ll get the ball on the roll.
You said that if I wish my scenarios removed from the site you will tell the membership to bouycott my scenarios...is that not a threat Randy? Or did I miss something here. Again I asked you a question and you went off the deep end. I can find the exact words if you like.
Thank you for responding. I hope you will give me some useful information in your next email.
I hope this informed you thoroughly and you’ll consider allowing us to host your scenarios instead of having us remove them.
It leaves a bad taste to know you’re acquainted with some individuals who are looking to destroy the Blitz CM community and conspiracy theories will be abound, since your sudden act here follows right after threats by one of these individuals to sue us.
Surely you can find better company.
Excuse me? What are you talking about? I think you have conspiracy theories on the brain. Who are you talking about?
The only thing I know of your situation is when I was a brief member of FraGMent. They seem to have an ongoing fued with you. BUT if you will notice I had a bone to pick with them and left on not such good terms with that bunch. You can go to their website and see our discourse.
Not that any of that is any of your business.
I asked you simply why my scenarios are on the Blitz site. I asked if you knew the legal ramifications of putting privately made materials on a website without permission. You came back with the biggest line of BS I've ever heard and threatened me with bouycott...I actually had to laugh at that one....and then got in my face. I was doing research for an Operation Bagration scenario when my work came up showing at your site. My work comes up on the internet often as I have quite a few scenarios so that was not unusual. What was unusual is that it came up at the Blitz! A site I didn't know had my scenarios on it.
The bottom line is this;
1) you said you didn't know who I am. Either that is a lie or all of the knowledge you claim to have about me and my whereabouts is a lie.
2) you said that there were no reviews and AAR's done on the Blitz...only on "MY OWN WEBSITE"...which since I don't have a website would be hard but considering the websites I frequent I can see the misunderstanding. Then to my utter amazement, you tell me that the Blitz does do AAR's and reviews and I have a membership rating of some sort.
3) you threatened me with a bouycott when I simply asked what my scenarios are doing on the website you run. You claim you didn't threaten me, that I started it all by threatening you with a lawsuit. I never one time said anything about a lawsuit.
4) you now claim I should watch who I associate with. That I am part of some great conspiracy. You sir, have no idea who I associate with. However, I can assure you that I am not a part of some great and evil conspiracy. I have many friends that I have no idea of their association with the Blitz. I would caution you though, that if you are using other peoples materials without their knowledge, and are threatened with being sued, then maybe your not taking care of your business in a proper fashion. I have no idea of your situation is but I have a first hand experience with how you deal with people.
5) you claim I threatened you with a lawsuit. I did not. I don't intend legal action, because, I'm sure that even you can figure out that if it ever comes to that the Blitz is dead. Whether you would win or not and I am 99% sure you wouldn't, the one percent is allowable for all legal issues, quite honestly your not worth my time and effort. I am in the business of making my CM hobby stronger not weaker. If you know as much about me as you claim, in the places you are not shouting you don't know who I am, then you know I work long and hard hours making the CM community a better place for gamers.
So please remove my scenarios from the Blitz site.
If you follow through with your threat of a bouycott let me know how it turns out for you.
Steve Overton
Steve Overton
Cheers
RedDevil FGM <
[email protected]> wrote:
Before you go get all bent out of line here
What scenarios are you talking about?
And were they publicly posted elsewhere for people to download?
Did you have a note stating they were not to be used or hosted on any other sites without your expressed written consent?
If not so, they are public domain then, if I understand correctly?
We ask members who play scenarios they’ve gotten elsewhere to upload them to our site for the benefit of others in our community to enjoy.
If you feel some disdain for our intents, please inform me of the scenarios that are causing you this grief and I’ll remove them and I’ll inform our community NOT to bother playing them or uploading them, because the author feels he’s been deprived of some sort of respect of courtesy for his work.
Randy Plume
ICQ 8646843
*********************************
www.tedebearscorner.com
http://members.myactv.net/~rplume/
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Overton [mailto:
[email protected]]
Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 8:04 PM
To:
[email protected]
Subject: [SPAM]We need to talk.....
I'm wondering who loaded all of my scenarios on your website without a single person asking me about it....are you aware of any kind of professional courtesy? Or even the legal ramifications of what your doing on this website?
I assume you own this website? Are you the one that is legally responsible for what takes place on the Blitz Website?
Steve Overton
Edit: Some inappropriate comments were removed but the text of the emails was left unedited, the reason is, as with an above post, the complaint Steve had was about an email exchange, which has been produced by Randy. Usually I would edit that, but as Randy was called a liar about it, and he posted that as a reply, I'll leave it. SG
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