[Discussion] How to improve urban combat in PzC/MC

[P.Ako]

Works just fine. I find that city terrain tends to "Rubble" quickly when fought over. And hey Presto! Suddenly those tanks can´t move forward without expending 90-100% of their available movement points.

Well, that's precissely the point, i know that in a lot of German cities the historical center is medieval and it's simply phisically impossible to put tanks there unless you burn the place into ashes, then yes, the tanks could enter expending 90-100% of their movement points.

-Create an impassable type of urban hexagon for the tanks and other heavy vehicles
Answered already by JDR Dragoon. No urban hex would be impassible. Routes through such hexes may be very limited. RUBBLE does the trick, IMO also.

See what i answered to JDR, if the hexagon is still city, then it would be impassable, but if it's turned into rubble then they could pass expending 90-100% of their movement points.

-Boost the infantry/anti tank guns hard attack when attacking a tank unit situated in an urban hexagon
I think I see what you are saying. The assumption is that armor has no adequate infantry support to deal with AT defenders and that armor is taking routes through the hex that are along the streets where the defensive AT are sighted. There is already a rule in the game engine for armor in congested terrain without adequate infantry support reducing the armor effectiveness and making armor vulnerable to assault. The latter assumption is beyond the scope of the game. Suffice to say that the direct fire results min and max values account for armor moving into enemy bore sites or along undefended routes in the hex.

Is there a rule to represent that? I didn't know, how it's called?

-Boost the infantry defence values when they're in an urban hexagon making them hard to hit by the artillery
Dig in with IP or TRENCHES. Designers can add BUNKERS or PILLBOXES. Just being in a building without added military fortifications does not help much more than the already high defense percent that lowers incoming fire by 30% -50% in most game titles. Troops can still be taken out by collapsing ot setting the biulding on fire if not dug in adequately.

Yes the pillboxes and bunkers can do the tricks, but, AFAIK you can't build them ingame, making the cities easy to take and it's impossible to create long lasting sieges, hell i could take Budapest in just 3 days with the Russians when in the reality the siege of that city lasted 46 days!

And about Berlin in DF85... i think that, versus another human player it's almost impossible to hold the city against the WAPA, i think that they could hold pretty well against the WAPA and would long more than two days, the average time needed to take the city in the games that i played vs my brother.
And for example i concentrate a lot of forces in a city... Hannover for example, which is surrounded by rivers in three sides, north, east and west, with the intention of turning the city into a fortress, but it's impossible to hold it more than a pair of days because the WAPA always end taking it from the south just because that part of the city (with trench level fortifications) has not a river to stablish a decent defend line and there are neither bunkers or obstacles (which brings me the idea that the engineers should be able to build at least obstacles...).
And that happens in the whole campaigns of DB, which it's almost impossible to hold long periods of time any city unless there's a river surrounding it.

-Complement the creation of the impassable urban hexagon with another kind of hexagon suitable for those vehicles representing areas where the streets are wide enough or there are a lot of avenues.
Not necessary, IMO. See number one above.

Well, see my previous or first point.

-Penalze tanks units trapped in an urban hexagon with obstacles in it with some penalty in their defence making them more vulnerable to shooting infantry/AT Guns
Not necessary, IMO. This would be overkill. See number one above.

Well, i just made this thread because i read in the scenario notes for Budapest the following (scenario #450103_01)

The scale of the Panzer Campaign series was never designed to model street-fighting such as this

So i just wanted to give ideas on how to better represent street fighting to that scale.

BTW, take your time to answer because i'm not going to stay in home during this weekend, i'll be with the most wonderful woman ever