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Mud Movement penalties seem low
02-21-2010, 07:34 AM, (This post was last modified: 02-21-2010, 07:53 PM by Volcano Man.)
#6
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low
IMO, the best and only thing to do here for the conditional modifier is that the Mud Condition parameter for each Movement Class should be *double* the Soft Condition's value. Currently it is not like this, it is (usually) only x1.5 more, if that. I suppose this doesn't make much sense considering that the shift from Soft to Mud should be twice (or more) as extreme, not 1.5 times as extreme -- well, logically speaking that is.

The other problem here is that the wheeled vehicles of all types (motorized, bicycle, motorcycle and even halftracks to some degree) have cross country movement values that are extremely generous. I think everyone is thinking about it the wrong way here: it is not that the fastest tank / vehicle needs to be made to go a maximum of 2 hexes per turn, it needs to be such that the entire army is reduced in speed so much that only the fastest units can achieve any real mobility and, because of all that, their advance rate is voluntarily restricted. So, would you advance if it means that the only thing you could move forward would be your tanks? This would mean that they would be moving forward alone, without any support whatsoever from wheeled vehicles, foot units and of course artillery. Some commanders might do it, but it would be extremely reckless to say the least. That alone would be causation for the user to consider moving them forward only as fast as the other units allow (one or two hexes per turn).

So my point is, the Mud Condition does not need to be magnified to 400 or 500%, the cross country values for wheeled vehicles need not be so generous and the Mud Condition should be double that of Soft Condition. All of these would combine so that the only thing doing any real movement in Mud would be tracked vehicles (albeit much slower than they currently do), and everything else would be at a snail's pace. When you have wheeled vehicles that can blitz across open country, and mud penalty very low, it compounds the issue to where the entire mechanized / motorized element of the army is barely hindered (voluntarily and involuntarily).

Oh well, just my opinion on the matter. I went through great pains to alter the cross country wheeled vehicle movement values through years of experimenting, those could certainly be used -- they are community property. :)

EDIT:

One thing I have to add after further thought...

Perhaps it is better to only do this "2x Soft Condition modifier for Mud Conditions" for mechanized units only, so that class: Infantry, Horse, Ski remain at the same Mud Condition values that they currently area (lets say class:Bicycle is in the mechanized category since it has wheels). I think those non mechanized classes are already hindered enough as it is, they really can't do much at the moment but move forward one hex. Increasing their conditional values even more would only ensure that they wouldn't be able to fire after moving forward on flat terrain (they already cannot fire if they cross a stream or move up hill in the mud).

If all of the above is done, then the effect would be the non mechanized forces would be able to move one hex and shoot, the motorized units (units with wheels) would be severely restricted from doing anything at all, and the tracked vehicles would be able to have moderate movement (1/3 their normal movement) so that they would basically leave everything else behind if they wanted to advance. This is the most realistic choice to me, of course it means changing both the Mud Condition values for the "mechanized units" to be 2x the Soft Value, and changing the movement values for all mechanized units to be the values that I have been using already in the _Alt.

For the sake of clarity, the conditional values would be like this:

Code:
100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
150 150 200 130 200 200 150 200 150 150 100 100 100
200 200 400 150 400 400 300 400 300 300 100 100 100
150 100 200 130 200 200 150 200 150 150 100 100 100
150 100 200 130 200 200 150 200 150 150 100 100 100

And movement values for all units would be thus:

EUROPE (Eastern, Western, Southern fronts):

Code:
6   6  12   8  12  12   6  12   6   6   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   3
  8   8  15   8  32  60  20  60  20  20   0   0   0
  8   8  15   8  32  60  20  60  20  20   0   0   0
  8   8  20  12  40  90  45  80  45  24   0   0   0
  8   8  15   8  32  60  30  60  30  24   0   0   0
10  12  30  18 146  90  45 120  45  36   0   0   0
12  12  30  18 208 120   0 180   0   0   0   0   0
16  16  40  24   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
16  16  40  24   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
  8   8  40   8  32  16   8  16   8   8   0   0   0
12  12  30  18 146  90  45 120  45  36   0   0   0
  8   8  40   8  32  16   8  16   8   8   0   0   0
18   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
16  16  40  24 208 120  60 180  60  54   0   0   0
  8   8  15   8  32  60  30  60  30  24   0   0   0
  8   8  15   8  32  60  30  60  30  24   0   0   0
  8   8  20  12  40  90  45  80  45  24   0   0   0
  8   8  20  12  40  90  45  80  45  24   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

  6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   0   0   0
  5   5   5   6   5   5   5   5   5   5   0   0   0
  4   4   4   6   4   4   4   4   4   4   0   0   0
  6   6  12   8  12  12   6  12   6   6   0   0   0
  6   6  20  12  52  30  30  30  30  18   0   0   0
  3   3  10   6  26  15  15  15  15   9   0   0   0
  7  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
-1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
  6   6  20  12  52  30  30  30  30  18   0   0   0
  1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   0   0   0
  1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   0   0   0
  1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   1   0   0   0
  6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   6   0   0   0
  6   6  20  12  52  30  30  30  30  18   0   0   0
  9   9   9   9   9  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0  -1
20  20  20  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
-1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0

NORTH AFRICA (desert):

Code:
6   0  10   6  10  10   8   6   6   6   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   3
  8   0  12   8  12  12  10   8   8   8   0   0   0
10   0  12  10  15  15  12  10  10  10   0   0   0
10   0  12  10  25  25  20  20  20  20   0   0   0
  8   0  10   8  15  15  12  10  10  10   0   0   0
10   0  10  10  10  30  30  30  30  30   0   0   0
20   0  20  20  20   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
20   0  20  20  20   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
30   0  30  30  30   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
10   0  12   8   8  10   8   8   8   8   0   0   0
  8   0  12   8  18  15  10  20  12  14   0   0   0
  8   0  15   8  10  10   8   8   8   8   0   0   0
20   0  40  40  40  40  40  40  40  40   0   0   0
  8   0   8   8   8  20  20  20  20  20   0   0   0
  6   0   6   6   6  12  12  12  12  20   0   0   0
  5   0   5   5   5  12  12  12  12  20   0   0   0
  3   0   3   3   3  10  10  10  10  15   0   0   0
  3   0   3   3   3  15  15  15  15  20   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0

  5   0   6   5   8   9   7   6   6   6   0   0   0
  4   0   5   5   5   7   7   5   5   5   0   0   0
  3   0   3   3   3   3   3   3   3   3   0   0   0
  6   0  10   6  10  10   8   6   6   6   0   0   0
  6   0  18  12  18  20  20  16  16  12   0   0   0
  6   0  18  12  18  20  20  16  16  12   0   0   0
  7  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
-1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
  6   0  18  12  18  20  20  16  16  12   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
  0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0   0
  3   0   3   3   3   3   3   3   3   3   0   0   0
12   0  24  18  24  26  26  20  22  18   0   0   0
  9   0   9   9   9  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0  -1
20   0  24  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0
-1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1  -1   0   0   0

Voila! Problem solved (one method of many possible)! ;) (despite my best efforts, the formatting is all screwed up, but everyone should get the idea).
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Messages In This Thread
Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Bacillus98 - 02-20-2010, 02:38 PM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Marquo - 02-20-2010, 11:09 PM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Ricky B - 02-21-2010, 12:33 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Rev Rico - 02-21-2010, 04:37 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Volcano Man - 02-21-2010, 07:34 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Midge - 02-23-2010, 12:40 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Midge - 02-23-2010, 11:39 PM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Ricky B - 02-24-2010, 01:46 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Ricky B - 02-24-2010, 08:56 AM
RE: Mud Movement penalties seem low - by Marquo - 02-25-2010, 09:47 AM

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