The Battle of Charleroi 14 and French 18e Corps

[Volcano Man]

Well, in regards to the 18e CA, I intimately remember digging up info on it from many sources because it is one of those issues that has conflicting information from each source where it is mentioned. As far as which sources I used, they are all listed in the notes. I sure hope people are reading the notes, I can't keep digging stuff up and revisiting it, I have to move on to the next title after all.

But speaking of Tyng's book, I am curious where exactly it specifically says that the 18e CA was on the left on the 21st and 22nd (or when it arrived exactly for that matter)? For the 18e CA's position, I took French maps and had them arrive at their spot in the line at the moment in which they show up in the front line on those maps. Look at the map on page 103 of Tyng's book where it shows the 18e CA on the left flank, and look at the fine print text in the bottom left of that map (it says the map is the situation on the *night of the 23rd*). Then turn over a few pages to page 109 at the bottom: it says (paraphrased), by night on the 22nd the 5e Armee fell back (from the Sambre) to defensive positions, only around Thuin did they maintain a foothold as the 18e CA arrived to prolong the position. This seems to imply that the 18e CA arrived on the night of the 22nd in force which was not so (see below).

In regards to that website you posted, I am all too familiar with it as it was helpful with the French OOB in finding some obscure regiments. However, in regards to his pages on specific battles, we have to keep in mind that we don't know what the heck sources the guy is using as he does not say AFAICT. Still, he has some good French maps but unfortunately he doesn't have a map that shows the 18e CA's position on them in the Charleroi section. But lets just take the website as the gospel truth for a moment. He states that:

"Further south, the 18th Army Corps, arrived Aug. 19 in the region Avesnes had advanced to (21?) Thuin. But he had only a vanguard: the 35th Division was still staggered Beaumont Hestrud. He could not take action on the 22nd. In addition, the reserve divisions were only leaving Vervins."

Just evaluating that text there, it says that the 18e CA "vanguard", which we have absolutely no idea what the vanguard was, it could have been its cavalry regiment, or that and the corps' artillery, or all of that plus half or part of the 36e DI - we just don't know. All that we do know is that the 35e DI was not in action on the 22nd as it was spread out between Beaumont and Hestrud and that (reading into it) the corps arrived in force just when the "reserve divisions" (4e GDR) was leaving Vervins. So this contradict's Tyng's paragraph that implied that the 18e CA arrived in force on the 22nd, which the latter is certainly not true given that the 18e CA does not appear on any maps on that day, only on the afternoon / evening of the 23rd does it appear on French battle maps (which, BTW, is how it currently plays out in the Charleroi and early campaign scenario).

But lets say we take a combination of the two sources, "arrived on the night of the 22nd" from the text of Tyng, disregarding his map that shows the corps in position on the night of the 23rd, "arriving" could be anything from it being in the general sector still moving to actually exiting march/column formation on that spot so we can't use that. What it most likely means it that the corps started trickling in on the night of the 22nd, piece by piece. In the website's text, it states that a vanguard of the corps was arriving on the 22nd, which lets say this is what Tyng was referring to "on the night of the 22nd". But then the website says that at least 1/2 of the corps (35e DI) and maybe more could not come into action on that day and that the corps was not fully into action until the "reserve divisions" were just leaving the Sambre (again, 4e GDR). Now we specifically know from records that the 4e GDR did not leave the area to move southwest until the night of the 23rd / morning of the 24th so this would mean that, optimistically, the 18e CA came into action on the night of the 23rd, just before the 4e GDR left. This coincides with Tyng's map, showing the situation on the night of the 23rd.

Maybe you can kind of get the idea now of the detective work that was involved in all of this stuff, and none of this is even taking into account the other sources listed in the notes. So what we know is this: the 18e CA arrived when the 4e GDR was leaving, and it arrived in full force at that point by the night of the 23rd to close the gap. So the situation as it currently stands in the scenario is that the corps will arrive in full force on that exact spot on the ground in the afternoon of the 23rd, rather than have parts of the corps trickle in on the 22nd, parts which we have no idea the size and number exactly, especially since the 4e GDR is still there covering the area at this point (so there isn't a huge open flank after all). This produces a historical result of the accounts that state that the 18e CA arrived just in the nick of time to take over for the 4e GDR and save the situation on the left flank.

Having said that, I can see now that I probably have them enter the Charleroi map in the wrong place as they moved (as best I can tell) along the road Hirson-la Capelle-Avesnes then to Beaumont so I should probably have them arrive on the left side of the map and not down at the bottom, and I might do that, but other than that I don't think there is enough evidence, currently at least, in my mind that justifies changing it especially giving the rather vague, contradicting and incomplete data available (which is why I used known points of 4e GDR withdrawal to coincide with 18e full arrival to "wargame" it properly). If we knew the exact composition of the "vanguard" then I may add a little chrome and have them arriving on the evening of the 22nd, but it doesn't matter anyway since they did not enter any action (they only sat and waited for the rest of the corps to come up) so doing this would allow users to rush them into the line piece by piece as they will not wait. Clear as mud I presume...