PzC Kharkov '43 Just Released

[Strela]

"i consider it to be more a DLC (downloable content) than a game of it's own because it doesn't have a new map (at least from what i can tell comparing the maps posted in the scenario design center and the official page) and it's price, which i consider it to be too high for what it offers."

I think this is what bothers me the most about this "new game:" from reading the posted manual, it appears that the old K'42 map was tweaked a bit, and for the most part Rick's great OOBs were used - which he developed for his superb K 43 player mod downloadable for free from this site. Really for the most part this is akin to what was done to the original Smolensk Campaign: the map was enhanced, the OOB tweaked and then it became downloadable for free from Glenn's PzC site.

This effort seems like an enhanced module add on for the original K'42; it could have easily been offered as a "patch" for the original; I would have paid some for the enhanced map - but all the other improvements such bunker building, etc. are usually disseminated as free upgrades; and thus far no one has really asked to be paid to download a mod from the online vault. VM's work is a labor of love for the games and he graces us with his stuff for free.

Anyway, I will by future original PzC works by digital download.

Marquo :)

Ok Marquo, I will bite. We all know you spent many, many hours working on your mod. We all have benefitted from your time and effort. What gets my goat is when you think 30 unique scenarios and campaigns is only good enough for a DLC. That was where the work was. There was over 12 months of pulling that all together and testing it. The OB as you rightly pointed out was Rick's work - but that was just a starting point. Essentally decisions were made around every formation. Every component was changed and validated against multiple sources before being included. To compliment Rick's research the Axis OB was very accurate in layout etc. The Soviets less so. The team I worked with spent a huge amount of time getting a lot of data together and building out the OB. We even went as far as including formations for future scenarios if we get the time.

And that was before we started on the scenarios.

You seem to base your point on the need for a new map. Personally, I disagree. To exclude games from being published because the map already exists means that anyone say wanting the Soviet counter offensive at Moscow is out of luck. Couple that with the point Glenn makes around Tobruk / El Alamein and I don't understand your view. Personally, I would prefer a Tiller published Moscow game than someones mod - even if just for the play testing that has been done. If we hadn't used an existing (modified) map you would be waiting another period of time for a new Panzer Campaigns game.

Finally there has to be a game for people to mod, John, Glenn and the team felt the work done to date was good enough to publish and that provides more longevity for all the great add ons that the community provides.