A few armored car musings and misc. requests

[Hawk Kriegsman]

Thanks again for the comment Hawk, but the fact that these vehicles will generally be kept out of sight is not really the point.

I disagee. It is a part of the point. Lossing too many or gaining too many points because of trucks is an indication of one side not protecting said trucks (or anyother unit for that matter). Too many times on this board someone claims something is broken with the game, when in all reality it is an issue with that someone's ability to play the game. So instead of striving to improve one's play they call out for the rules to be changed. And no I am not saying you are doing that in this thread.

The fact is, they *will* occasionally be spotted, and because Lloyd carriers
1. Have no rubber tires that can be punctured, and
2. Have some armor protection for the sides of the vehicle,
...this should be taken into account when determining the defensive value.

To bullet point 1. That is a detail too small for an abstract game like CS. That level of is more to the line of Combat Missions (and I am not sure it is even it that game). The defense values range from 1 (wagon) to 22 (Maus). That leaves a mere 22 defense values for the hundreds (thousands) of units in the game. This is even further restricted when you consider the bulk of the values are from 1 to 12. The designers took the time to do what they did and the overwhelming majority of the time you get realistic results.

To bullet point 2. As you quoted in in a earlie post from the unit's description. "they came with armored plates meant to be attached to the sides of the vehicle, though they were rarely fitted." The nullifies you stating above that it has armor protection.

I seem to remember the old panzerblitz tactical booklet of years past saying something to the effect that many "kills" in real life (for vehicles) were in actuality "mobility kills" - that is, the tires or treads were damaged, causing the vehicle to be effectively immobilized, but not destroyed.

I agree 100% with this. A unit getting knocked out in the game represents everything from a direct hit & explosion, to a mobility hit, to a unbuttoned crew member getting hit, to the gunsight being damage, to the crew going "f-this" and bailing out and everything in between. All a loss of 1 SP means in this game is that that 1 SP has been rendered unusable and its services are no longer available to you. Its an abstract you really have no idea what happened to it.

It's one of the main reasons I suggested that the psw221/222/231, and russian BA-20 armored car need to have their defense factors toned down earlier - they have rubber tires! A single grenade going off nearby would probably flatten all tires on the side of the vehicle facing the explosion.

Not necessarily. Where tire full pnuematic, solid or semi solid? Additionally a greande's force (and shrapnel) explodes in a V pattern. More likely you lost 1 SP to a grenade because the commander just bought it.

That would not disable a fully tracked vehicle unless the ordnance was practically contacting the tracks.

Most likely not disabling an armored car either. However as to hitting a crew member, severing a hydralic line, etc.. it is all the same.

Just my opinion, but the above factors make a Lloyd carrier (slightly) harder to kill than your average truck.

As I said before the Llyod should de the same as a truck. And honestly, if you have a unit with a soft defense of 1,2 or 3 it is more often than not toast if it gets shot at.

Thanx!

Hawk