How do you improve PzB???

[ComradeP]

I think the vast majority of the issues we're seeing come from the way results are calculated. Mathematically speaking, a number of problems become clear if you run some calculations. Note that in this case, the actual calculations the game uses are unclear, so I'm only guessing.

In my Nepkhaevo game against Dog Soldier, which I might very well lose, our tanks are firing away at eachother from a certain distance and the quality and firepower advantage of the Panzer IV G's is not always clear.

The reason for that is the way the system works, which at least in this case doesn't favour high quality units as much as it does for normal direct fire between infantry units.

I'm not really sure how the fire results are calculated at all, or what the "Fire Value" is as it doesn't match any of the figures below. It's 120 for 15 tanks, or 8 per tank, but it's not clear if that's modified or not or how it's calculated. If it's unmodified attack value - defense value then it matches for the Panzer IV G firing at the T-34's but not for the T-34. 17-10=7. 8 (number of T-34's)x7=56, but the game has Fire Value at 83 for the T-34's.

The term Fire Value is also not explained in the manual. It is said that Combat Value is the adjusted Fire Value of the firing units, and that it's the modified attack value divided by the modified defense value, but the latter seems odd as if we divide 325 by 144, that's 2.25.

It is stated in the Combat Results section that "the given modifiers are applied" to get to the next step but they were already applied. If we take just the vehicle for 1 vehicle we get: 26x1,5=39. Times the range modifier is 26 again, which when modified for the armor penetration formula gives ~21.6. If we divide that by 18 we get 1.2 The combat values always end up being low. For the T-34's, it's 0,85.

Using the data that is explained in the manual gives the following results for 15 Panzer IV G's firing at a unit of T-34's from 2 hexes away (so range modifier is applied once):

Note: I'm not rounding decimals in most of the example.

(26x1.5) =hard attack value times quality modifier of 50% for A quality units, as it's 20 for A quality units times a base of 2.5)

times

15=number of vehicles
=585

we then divide that by 1.5 (range modifier)
=390

We then divide that by the rule for hard attack versus lower defence. Now, this is one of the areas where the first problems manifest itself, as there's no accounting for a drop in armour penetration for range. This modifier is always the same. You can also see that in the Results pop-up: the HA/D relation is always 144%. Though there is a range modifier, that is applied to the total fire value.

This is the reason you see weak units destroy tanks that they shouldn't be able to destroy based on their hard attack divided by the range modifier for that specific range (even at range 2, with the range modifier applied once, a Panzer IV G has a modified hard attack value of 17,33 if you'd apply it directly and would thus on average have issues with penetrating the T-34 defence rating of 18, although you could modify this with a quality modifier as well to indicate the crews are aiming for known weak spots).

1/Square Root (H/D). H/D is 26/18=~1,44. The square root of that number is about ~1,2. 1/1.2=0,833.

We multiply 390 by 0,833. That's 324,87. This is our base number to eventually determine the Low Fire Value and the High Fire Value. First, we must determine how much 324,87 is of 1000 (the standard number you have to substract it from to be able to calculate low and high casualty levels) as a percentage. If you divide 1000 by 324,87, you get 3,078. If you divide 100 by 3,078 to get to the percentage you need, you get 32,488. This is no surprise, and you probably saw that yourself without any need for calculations.

We now multiply the Low Fire Value, 20, by 0,32488. That's 6,4976. This is our Low Fire Value. What this means is that, statistically speaking, it is quite possible for 15 tanks not to destroy any enemy tanks as a number below 10 isn't a guaranteed kill (the probability in this case is ~65% at the Low Fire Value).

The High Fire Value is 100, so if we multiply that by 0,32488, that's 32,488 again. If you get that result, you have a ~25% chance of inflicting 4 losses, but will usually inflict 3.

So, if we look at the results, the average is (6,4976+32,488)/2=19,4228 or 1 tank, almost 2 tanks.

However, this isn't actually what happens, as casualties or lower most of the time. In short, it doesn't seem to work like that but without knowing what Fire Value is, or where that enters into the calculation, it's difficult to calculate the correct result. The defence value is missing in this calculation aside from the armour penetration formula.

What is clear is that, due to the system ignoring penetration values for longer ranges and due to the penalty for higher hard attack than defense values, it can be difficult to establish a superiority even when you fire first, match the defenders in quantity and have superior firepower.

A hard cap to how effective a tank with a certain gun is at a certain range would already help a lot.

What Dog Soldier and I are doing currently, like what happened when he assaulted bunkers in Gertsovka, has little to do with tactics, but purely with math and the die rolls derived from them. An example: one of his Churchill units was disrupted with 8 tanks or so. It knocked out 3 of my tanks at 2 hex range. Mathematically speaking, his fire value at hex range 2 wouldn't be enough to deal with the defense rating of a Panzer IV G (19/2 due to being disrupted=9.5, divided by 1.5 range modified= 6,33 which is lower than 10) The system has a lot of variation which limits the effectiveness of good units, keeps casualties low and prevents the Germans from dealing with a numerically superior foe without it closing in.

A lot of the fun from the game is currently being frustrated by die rolls being required as tactics alone don't get you the desired results. It's like a well-researched numerical system for unit values was attached to a well-researched system for gameplay mechanics, but it breaks apart from time to time when results have to be calculated. We see that with replacements, assaults and direct fire on gun and vehicle units.