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How do you improve PzB???
03-24-2014, 05:25 AM,
#37
RE: How do you improve PzB???
(03-23-2014, 10:10 PM)ComradeP Wrote: That was the only thing I was trying to prove: that small scenarios with a lot of bunkers can be unbalanced if the defender concentrates his forces in bunkers.

I agree the 10 turn scenarios are not much good at PBEM play. Against the AI they work fine. They are essentially training battles.

(03-23-2014, 10:10 PM)ComradeP Wrote: What I meant was that they destroyed 3 tanks in the same turn that they were disrupted in earlier. That's the result that, to me, didn't make much sense. What they did in your next turn was fine.
I think what you observed was the T-34 unit one hex south of the disrupted Churchill tanks. As I saw it the T-34s defensively fired at PzIVgs at two hexes range (500 meters) as the panzers paraded into the crossfire hex from behind the smoke. The panzers were close and in the open. Three Soviet tank units had clear LOS and one and two hex ranges to this hex.
The other good order Churchill unit fired at two and three hexes at the panzers. This crossfire on the panzers advancing next to the disrupted Churchill tanks (and point blank range) caused most of the German panzer losses in the German move. The disrupted Churchill tank killed one of those panzers at a one hex range. Disrupted units are not helpless. There were also many fatigue shots on the panzers as they moved to the hex adjacent to the disrupted Churchill tanks. 17 and 19 H/A factors at such close ranges on panzers with a 10 defense factor should result in panzer wrecks. Why not?

(03-23-2014, 10:10 PM)ComradeP Wrote: What would you consider proper overwatch positions?
About two or three hexes behind a line with the PzIIIm units in front. The PzIIIm tanks have a 12/6 H/A which means they also have to be close due to the short range of their guns. The PzIIIM tanks have a higher defense value to do this than the PzIVg tanks. (11 versus 10 defense values) Not much, but every bit helps.
The PzIVgs have 26/10 HA values. They can shoot well beyond where the PzIIIms are placed 500 - 750 meters in front of them depending on terrain. The extra two or three hexes makes the Russian tanks less effective against the PzIVgs if the Soviets do not move closer than two or three hexes from the PzIIIm picket line. If the soviets try to close with the PzIVg tanks this causes a problem if the Soviets ignore the closer PzIIIm tanks.
The closest the Soviet armor can get is three hexes away form the PzIvg units at the risk of being point blank adjacent to the PzIIIm tanks. With ranges of 6 & 8, the T-34s and Churchill tanks would be at only half range. Half range is a good place to be if you are a Squad Battles player, you know this. Still not a comfortable position at all for the Soviets!

T-34 H/A 17/6
T-34 defense 18
Churchill H/A 19/8
Churchill defense 19

PzIIIm H/A 12/6
PzIIIm defense 11
PzIVg H/A 26/10
PzIvg defense 10

The Russian defense values are nearly twice as good as the German tanks. To use the Soviet tanks H/A factors effectively, the Soviet tankers need to close to two and three hexes as I did using your smoke and my own smoke rounds to cover that advance from most of your defensive fire. Thus the ineffective defensive fire you claim. When the smoke cleared we were in a kill zone range where the Russians could give as good as good as they got because your PzIIIms and PzIVgs were mixed up together in a single line. This is my point about tactics.

Ideally the Germans at #0706_07 Nepkhaevo - The Meeting Engagement should advance or fight their way to the ridge line west of the town. The units would not be full strength as in the image below. The Russians would be driven back to the town or the outskirts of the town. The deployment of the PzIIIms is just a sample. It would be different based on the Soviet deployments. This is an ideal over watch with the strong PzIvg units on the crest of the ridge.
[Image: Pz%20Over%20watch.jpg]

(03-23-2014, 10:10 PM)ComradeP Wrote:
Quote:ComradeP waited patiently for four turns for my Russian tanks to run into his trap, but I did not comply.

Actually, I just wanted to see if you committed your tanks elsewhere.

I already knew from my own testing that the tank vs. tank mechanics wouldn't allow me to establish a clear superiority at ranges below 4 hexes or so.

I guess we agree then that a range below four hexes (from you own tests) is a good place for the Soviets to be if they can get there in one piece. Smoke helps no matter who deploys it.

Dog Soldier
Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything.
- Wyatt Earp
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Messages In This Thread
How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-02-2014, 10:00 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Tide1 - 03-02-2014, 10:27 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Kuriltai - 03-03-2014, 06:25 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Strela - 03-03-2014, 10:43 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 03-03-2014, 10:11 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-03-2014, 07:14 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-03-2014, 07:42 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-03-2014, 08:06 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Volcano Man - 03-05-2014, 08:41 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Wodin - 03-05-2014, 09:54 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-06-2014, 12:25 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by TheBigRedOne - 03-06-2014, 03:14 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Wodin - 03-07-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-07-2014, 01:06 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by TheBigRedOne - 03-07-2014, 01:41 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-07-2014, 02:58 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Wodin - 03-08-2014, 10:07 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-08-2014, 10:15 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Wodin - 03-09-2014, 02:29 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by GerryM - 03-09-2014, 03:05 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-09-2014, 08:29 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-09-2014, 09:34 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-11-2014, 08:40 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Fonebone - 03-18-2014, 12:15 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 03-20-2014, 06:15 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-18-2014, 04:35 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-18-2014, 08:50 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-18-2014, 11:08 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-19-2014, 01:17 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-19-2014, 04:16 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Fonebone - 03-20-2014, 10:54 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-21-2014, 07:27 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Strela - 03-22-2014, 08:11 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-22-2014, 10:49 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 03-23-2014, 06:53 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-23-2014, 10:10 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 03-24-2014, 05:25 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-24-2014, 07:56 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Liquid_Sky - 03-24-2014, 01:10 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-24-2014, 04:43 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-24-2014, 08:57 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-25-2014, 12:24 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Xaver - 03-25-2014, 12:54 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-25-2014, 01:35 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-25-2014, 06:02 AM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-25-2014, 04:31 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Bayes - 03-25-2014, 06:40 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-25-2014, 06:55 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 03-26-2014, 04:05 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 03-26-2014, 09:54 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Batu - 04-03-2014, 09:12 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Dog Soldier - 04-05-2014, 12:02 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 04-07-2014, 03:52 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by Landser34 - 06-10-2014, 01:54 PM
RE: How do you improve PzB??? - by ComradeP - 06-10-2014, 03:44 PM

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