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AI/Computer Selected Forces
02-08-2015, 09:32 PM, (This post was last modified: 02-08-2015, 09:40 PM by Air Master.)
#11
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces
(02-08-2015, 12:29 PM)Weasel Wrote: AI picks add some nice randomness to the game and can balance out players, but it can also really screw one player. Our first AI game Walrus had four or six batteries of 155 plus 120mm mortars and air and I had a single 81mm on map mortar, a 120mm on map mortar and a single 105 arty piece, no air. I had superior tanks but they were centurions and moved so slowly that he just clobbered them with heavies, total arty fest. After that we had to start disclosing to each other at game start how much arty we had to balance it out, but then the player who has to turn arty off loses on battle points. All in all just a mess.

Using buying guides works better, IMO.

This is our old buying guide, the % don't work anymore and the rest needs to be tweaked, something we are just starting to work on, but it lays a good foundation.

I also have a buy guide which I will dig out. I agree that AI is far from perfect but I do like having to struggle with crap units I would never have picked. That said I seem to be on the wrong side of Lady-AI-luck in both games against Leo, having narrowly lost the first as Sovs vs Brits in 53 and about to do the same as Brits in the rematch.

Some interesting numbers in your doc which pose some questions - with my long term non-Blitz oppos we have similar numbers:
Searching 130% - is this because the size 0 and elite units are uber-effective?
Why did you set rout/rally to 60% and tank toughness to 120%?
Infantry toughness 50% - same as us. With experienced players good infantry dominate the battlefield.
Arty 50% - Also agree. In fact we got so dischuffed with over-effective arty skewing every game we set it at 10-30%
Mortars - same set up, within 1 hex, but no ammo reloads.
Formations - same, but in SPWW2 we simply banned snipers other than for urban assault! Simply too invisible and too deadly.
For add-ons we use whatever is appropriate, e.g. mounted ATGM for armoured formations and dismounted for inf.
Arty we split into 3 categories: < or = 105mm, < or =155mm (WW2 150mm) and larger using a 3:2:1 purchase ratio, but always having to buy the smaller batteries first. We also have one designated observer for each off-board battery. This really does put arty in its place and means that 203mm and similar only come out in very big games.
Mortars similar with <=90mm, <=120mm and larger - regardless of infantry companies.
Same agreement on other items like airmobile, minelets, reloads etc
For flag capture this has to be done by platoon sized elements.
And this the tip of a small iceberg also covering arty observation, mg fields of fire, Z fire...
Essentially, like you and Walrus, we were trying to remove unrealistic forces and behaviour. Oh I forgot...elite infantry - one elite infantry coy could be purchased for every 2 non-elite AND in MBT one motor or APC inf coy must be purchased for every dismounted coy, except where clearly not applicable such as Sovs in Afghan. And, any game vs Israelis in 67 or 73 the Ayrabs get a 25% points bonus to balance the fact that Israelis are mostly super-human and their oppos mostly quite awful...
Best AM

(02-08-2015, 09:32 PM)Air Master Wrote:
(02-08-2015, 12:29 PM)Weasel Wrote: AI picks add some nice randomness to the game and can balance out players, but it can also really screw one player. Our first AI game Walrus had four or six batteries of 155 plus 120mm mortars and air and I had a single 81mm on map mortar, a 120mm on map mortar and a single 105 arty piece, no air. I had superior tanks but they were centurions and moved so slowly that he just clobbered them with heavies, total arty fest. After that we had to start disclosing to each other at game start how much arty we had to balance it out, but then the player who has to turn arty off loses on battle points. All in all just a mess.

Using buying guides works better, IMO.

This is our old buying guide, the % don't work anymore and the rest needs to be tweaked, something we are just starting to work on, but it lays a good foundation.

I also have a buy guide which I will dig out. I agree that AI is far from perfect but I do like having to struggle with crap units I would never have picked. That said I seem to be on the wrong side of Lady-AI-luck in both games against Leo, having narrowly lost the first as Sovs vs Brits in 53 and about to do the same as Brits in the rematch.

Some interesting numbers in your doc which pose some questions - with my long term non-Blitz oppos we have similar numbers:
Searching 130% - is this because the size 0 and elite units are uber-effective?
Why did you set rout/rally to 60% and tank toughness to 120%?
Infantry toughness 50% - same as us. With experienced players good infantry dominate the battlefield.
Arty 50% - Also agree. In fact we got so dischuffed with over-effective arty skewing every game we set it at 10-30%
Mortars - same set up, within 1 hex, but no ammo reloads.
Formations - same, but in SPWW2 we simply banned snipers other than for urban assault! Simply too invisible and too deadly.
For add-ons we use whatever is appropriate, e.g. mounted ATGM for armoured formations and dismounted for inf.
Arty we split into 3 categories: < or = 105mm, < or =155mm (WW2 150mm) and larger using a 3:2:1 purchase ratio, but always having to buy the smaller batteries first. We also have one designated observer for each off-board battery. This really does put arty in its place and means that 203mm and similar only come out in very big games.
Mortars similar with <=90mm, <=120mm and larger - regardless of infantry companies.
Same agreement on other items like airmobile, minelets, reloads etc
For flag capture this has to be done by platoon sized elements.
And this the tip of a small iceberg also covering arty observation, mg fields of fire, Z fire...
Essentially, like you and Walrus, we were trying to remove unrealistic forces and behaviour. Oh I forgot...elite infantry - one elite infantry coy could be purchased for every 2 non-elite AND in MBT one motor or APC inf coy must be purchased for every dismounted coy, except where clearly not applicable such as Sovs in Afghan. And, any game vs Israelis in 67 or 73 the Ayrabs get a 25% points bonus to balance the fact that Israelis are mostly super-human and their oppos mostly quite awful...
Best AM


Attached Files
.pdf   Air Master SPWW2 ORBAT Guide.pdf (Size: 46.64 KB / Downloads: 5)
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Messages In This Thread
AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-06-2015, 07:05 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by KAreil - 02-07-2015, 02:57 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-07-2015, 03:00 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-07-2015, 12:59 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-07-2015, 03:04 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by KAreil - 02-07-2015, 08:14 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-07-2015, 09:34 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by KAreil - 02-07-2015, 11:49 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-08-2015, 01:35 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-08-2015, 12:29 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-08-2015, 09:32 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-09-2015, 05:21 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-09-2015, 06:06 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-09-2015, 12:04 PM
AFVs and woods - by Weasel - 02-10-2015, 06:00 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-10-2015, 11:59 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-10-2015, 12:30 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-10-2015, 12:37 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Gordons HQ - 02-11-2015, 12:00 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-11-2015, 06:54 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Air Master - 02-17-2015, 12:22 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-18-2015, 05:36 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Gordons HQ - 02-18-2015, 10:31 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-19-2015, 09:32 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by KAreil - 02-27-2015, 03:01 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Cross - 02-22-2015, 01:33 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Walrus - 02-22-2015, 10:15 AM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-22-2015, 02:36 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Walrus - 02-23-2015, 02:56 PM
RE: AI/Computer Selected Forces - by Weasel - 02-27-2015, 07:34 AM

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