Panzer Battles 2 - The Official Teaser Thread

[Strela]

That became a problem with Kursk and never really improved again afterwards, at least not on the Eastern Front. A division that was sent to France for R&R and remained there or a division that was created in Western Europe  and remained there had the time to properly train its replacements until Overlord. This is why most of the German mobile units we'll be using at the start of Overlord will still be decent to good, but any forces that showed up later like the independent Panzer Brigades without proper training won't be.

The majority of the German forces attacking at Kursk are their veteran/elite mobile forces, so they also took the bulk of the losses. Those losses could no longer be replaced either in terms of available experienced replacements or in terms of available replacements at all. Losses in NCO's and lower officer ranks tended to cut effectiveness the most: without an experienced cadre, it's more difficult to bring recruits up to speed.

The Germans, like the Soviets, also had months to train their new recruits pre-Kursk. After Kursk, the Soviets had the initiative and there would be fewer quiet periods to train replacements. Pre-Kursk, the Germans lost entire units in Tunisia and at Stalingrad, but those were (nearly) entirely destroyed, the mobile units you use at Kursk haven't experienced those kinds of disasters yet.

For them, the worst part of the war was still to come, with attrition and having to  act as fire brigades to stop Soviet breakthroughs taking their toll over time. There would also be no rest for them like there was in the first half of the war.

It did depend on the service branch of the forces: the infantry took the heaviest losses, so the infantry quality would decline more rapidly than that of the tank forces. For the men in the Panzers, the lack of available vehicles would be a bigger problem than lack of replacements. For example: even as late as Operation Konrad in early 1945, the SS units involved had a sizable pool of experienced tankers but no tanks for them to use.

The Soviets were waging a front-wide offensive with a mix of experienced and less experienced forces and air support and land combat doctrines that were still evolving against an opponent that was still quite capable of limited counterattacks, which resulted in heavy losses for their offensives, but a war of attrition could not be won by the Germans.

What ComradeP said....

I discussed this in the users notes on John Tillers site available from here; 

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/Panzer.../notes.pdf


The SS (LAH & DR) had been rebuilt during all of 1942 after being decimated as regiments in Barbarossa. 3rd SS was a new formation. They were committed to battle, earlier than expected at Kharkov in Feb/Mar '43. This was through necessity as the German line had been destroyed in the south with the encirclement at Stalingrad and the retreat from the Caucasus.

The inclusion of the SS and the timely arrival of mobile units from the Caucasus allowed Manstein to perform the 'backhand blow' ultimately stopping the Soviets as they reached the Dnepr. This setup the battle of Kursk and the longest lull (3 months) that occurred on the Eastern Front.

if you want to read more about Kharkov '43 and Manstein's actions, the player's notes from the equivalent Panzer Campaigns game is here;

http://www.johntillersoftware.com/Panzer.../notes.pdf


The SS at Kursk were still elite troops despite the losses at Kharkov. They had time to make up their losses and sufficient leaders to be considered elite. It would be less so later in the war.

As an aside to back up ComradeP, Liebstandarte in Normandy is C morale - a far cry from the A morale at Kursk....

David