Shermans v Panthers help

[Gris]

Fantastic tips, thanks, Gris. Really appreciated. In particular I have been COMPLETELY neglecting number 4, and not paying enough attention to 7 and 8. With regards to 7 that means that the 'tactic' of coming out, firing (attracting his op fire in return), then moving back to cover might not be so useful, perhaps, because the op fire you get if he can attack you might be very useful? On the other hand, I'm not sure how op fire works but it 'seems' to me that the return fire (the op fire) is much less effective than the fire I actually command during my turn?

I am at the moment losing tanks hand over fist. I'm playing Dennis in Epsom 1 and it's a bloodbath. Visibility has been so short (2 hexes) that the tanks haven't been able to stand off when using them as support for trench and bunker assaults. Costly. And that's without him even committing his Panthers....

As far as tanks assaulting, I'd like more info. Do you mean you can assault tanks with tanks in close terrain? Or did you mean with infantry?  Have you tried assaulting Panthers with Shermans? I wonder how the results differ from standing back and firing?

Many thanks, again.

Peter

On 7 the shoot and scoot is a tactic, but I was not referring to it. Just defending the line in that tip. I do use it to fall back, I shoot twice and then move back, retrograde bound and overwatch with a number of units. Unit A fires twice, moves back, unit B fires twice moves back, etc etc. I generally do not try to attract defensive fire, because it is unlimited to prevent the soaking-off of shots. The design notes cover it. Soaking off shots (and ZOC) have been a problem or tactic depending on how you feel since wargaming started. It is a great feature in the game. 

To my knowledge the return fire is the same except for artillery. Look at indirect fire modifier and opportunity fire in the manual. Also siege guns cannot use opportunity fire. One maxim in wargaming is -  

"My opponent's fire always appears more effective than mine" 

Kolc is right on with the infantry. I have used that myself to great effect. That is a good tip. Axis Infantry are very effective vs Allied armor, so watch out for them. Right click the unit portrait and look at some of the numbers. Just a high as armor units minus the range!

Dennis is a great player and is responsible for generating many of the tips above! Definitely keep playing him if you can and you will learn a lot. I have not played Epsom, but I did look at the map. A lot of the Vets seem to concentrate a large force on a narrow front and overwhelm that part of the line. Usually once the line breaks you start snowballing a lot of points. The terrain doesn't look very tank friendly. So maybe break down your tanks into small platoons and use them to support the infantry in front (which in turn protect the tanks). You going to lose a lot of men up front, but in the end when the line breaks you will save many. That map appears to favor the defender. Use your numbers to overwhelm him in one area if still possible. Take it with a grain of salt, I haven't played it. 

Something else that might help is many of the larger scenarios have smaller ones that break the battle into pieces. Play them first. Helps you grasp the bigger picture before jumping in. Also switch sides.  The easiest way to see the Axis weakness is to experience it first hand. Many of the scenarios take a few play throughs before you get near the historical results or even a win.

Take a look at Dog Soldier's excellent Bunker Busting guide. It not only works for bunkers, but attacking in general. Especially pay close attention to how he uses his force multipliers, such as recon and smoke. 

https://www.theblitz.club/message_boards...?tid=66968

I've assaulted disrupted Tigers and Panthers with Shermans and won. Again I used the Allied numbers to overwhelm the Axis. I haven't used it often, most of the time you will eliminate them at range. It is a specific situation and another option in your toolbag. Ideally Infantry vs Armor in close terrain is best from my experience if you want to take the hex. Read the Assault section in the manual since the rules for infantry and armor calculate different. The terrain does have an effect. 

In the end, the Allies had a lot of respect or fear for the Panthers and Tigers for good reason. They were used to engage armor. The Sherman was Infantry support.The Sherman is in many ways a better tank than the Tiger or Panther. Where it fails is the low velocity gun and ammo (not all models). The Soviets used the better ammo to great effect. There is a lot of discussion on the internet about it, just consider the source if you research it.  It was upgraded and fought in many wars through the 1960's. I was in logistics in the US Army and they used the Sherman vs Panther comparison many times. Unfortunately the Deathtrap book has left the Sherman with a bad rap. Subject for another thread someday.

Hope this helps, Have a great day!

Gris