Germany as AI

[Gris]

Actually Gris, your point about the encirclement's totally defeats my argument about fixed OOBs, to a point, but a big point.  I agree if division X is scheduled to appear on turn 20 then no matter what happens that division will appear, whether it is new or a rebuild.  So if I destroyed division X on turn 3 around Minsk it doesn't matter, and that would suck big time.  BUT! you would still be without that division for that many turns; of course then manpower would be eliminated from play which would take away a tactic for the Germans and the Russians would have more divisions than in real life since you are destroying them but they are coming back.

However, I totally disagree with the "checker board" defence, that is purely a game mechanic play knowing that a crappy division split up and placed with a hex between will soak off Axis fuel and MPs.

My take on Russia, and I am sure yours' too, is to build a line and defend it as I am currently doing at the Dnieper.

So I agree with your points of view now, you took me to an area I had not thought of, I only thought about 'what is good for the goose is good for the gander'.  It almost seems that GG knew what he was doing when he built the game.

You can never balance a game, or a scenario, because the human element will always make it tilted one way or the other.  I have made SP scenarios for tournament play, red on blue, with each side having identical forces and players still said it was unfair do to terrain etc etc.

Good discussion eh.

The checker board defense is an actual defense, on a tactical level the Roman Manipular formation and the US Army in the 50's used the Pentomic Divisions in checker board defense because of WMD, are a couple examples. It is a zoned defense with a shortage of resources or one requiring dispersal based on a given threat.

I think the problem in the game with the checkerboard defense and most games is the power of the ZOC. ZOC can cause a lot of problems, and it is addressed by size of unit on paper, but not in actual strength. I.E. Divisions have a ZOC, Brigades don't etc etc. I think the ZOC should tie into the actual strength of a unit. But in WITE that in not the case (I am not sure if any game does this off the top of my head, I am sure one does somewhere). Look at Axis divisions at the end of the war compared to their actual strength. Hardly a division. Hence the reality to game conversion problem. But given it's current state and the fact I can't change it in the middle of my game, what can I do?

The counter to the checkerboard defense is this, attack where he is weak. Use your infantry units to clear out the checkerboard, then break through with your fast moving Panzers. Will he reform, yes. but get him to a point where he can't checker board. He is not going to checker board Leningrad and Moscow. Not Baku neither. One thing I have learned from the veteran players on the Matrix forums and I see if often. He can't be strong everywhere.

This is what I see.

Turn 13 on the Road to Leningrad. A strong Soviet defense??? One Soviet defender is an x meaning a defense over two digits. Then a 65 and a 43, All units have a Det of 10, so the defense is close to accurate. I have only four turns to crack it. Impossible??? No, the Axis have already won the game.




Turn 15. Axis infantry press on the weak point (the 43 defense Fort of 2) with Air, Artillery, and pioneers using HQ buildup cracking the line and taking the port. The Soviets are doomed.



Turn 16. The Soviets are isolated and will surrender. By turn 17 the Axis win the scenario. I win the fight by not fighting, and when I have to fight, I do not fight fair. I fight to win. Notice not a single stack the Axis had, had a higher CV than the Soviets stacks. I didn't fight the No 5 forts, I fought the 2 and 3 forts. I fought the 43, not the X.



If Leningrad falls so easily, the checker board will stop me only if I attack him where he can stop me. I attack him where he can't. He can't be strong everywhere.

On Soviet defense you make him think you are weak. Have him go where you want him to go. Buy your time as best as you can. Wear him down (by ZOC!). Yes, use the rivers (excellent point, the movement delay is massive on rivers! 14.1.5. Tactical Movement Point Cost Chart). When the first Blizzard hits. Hit the Axis hard. The real fight is in 42. Let him create a huge bulge in your line, then pinch it off with two Soviet Shock armies. Even if he rescues every unit, you delayed him that many turns. You made the enemy change his plan. He can't be strong everywhere.

The Art of War by Sun TZU. "The supreme art of war is to subdue the enemy without fighting".

Excellent discussion as always, my friend. 

See you on the Steppe.