F40 help!

jonnymacbrown · 06-12-2006, 05:29 PM,

Ricky, when do you think we might see something? Also, what about the concept there being no "F" rated French units? Also, I've been fooling around with your strategic options game and that is a good variation. Thanks for the work. JE

jonnymacbrown · 06-14-2006, 09:22 AM,

Ricky, can you please say what the VP hex changes are?

**Ricky B** · 06-14-2006, 09:51 AM,

David was the driving force of the changes, and deserves the bulk of the thanks!

I haven't gotten into the ratings myself, not being an expert on the fighting, and wouldn't have a clue where to start with them. But I think as they are is fair, I would possibly consider toning down a few of the newer German infantry divisions, maybe boosting a small number of French, but don't have any specifics.

On the VP changes, they are boosted quite a bit higher. I believe the regular campaign version in the F'40 update has matching values, or close to it. I forgot about it, but believe David updated it early on to have higher values and victory levels to help balance out things.

Rick

jonnymacbrown · 06-16-2006, 05:05 AM,

Thanks Ricky, but it would be nice to get some more specific information. Is there any way to get David involved in this thread? I see the Germans need 25000 VP's for a major victory and there are a total of 25550 VP's, so the Germans would need to capture every VP hex, when historically, and in my frame of reference, they really only need to capture Abbeville, Calais, Oostende, Antwerpen and Dunkirque for a strategic victory, thereby cutting off the Allied supply line. My thinking is those 5 objectives should suffice for a major victory and be worth 5000 VP's each. Any thoughts on this? Also, and news from anyone on this, which French divisions might be slightly upgraded? Thanx JE

**Ricky B** · 06-16-2006, 05:28 AM,

David normally stops by, I believe so should contribute if he is able. On specifics regarding objectives and victory levels, first you must download the latest France update - a major win for the Axis requires something like 70,000 points, not 25k, the original release had the lower number. On it the objectives are worth 58,750 points.

Comparing the objective points just against the victory levels, at least for the original scenario as do in your post does not really provide any basis for analysis because the points that the allies typically lose to losses are much higher. For example, I have a minor Axis win in a game where I am not half way across France to the coast yet, due to Belgian losses - the objective points are only a small portion of the total points in that one.. That is what most players are seeing, although in the team game I am in it is a minor Axis loss with only minor objectives having fallen. Anyway, that is the reason for the big boost in objective points - to make it impossible for the German to win a major victory without seizing most of the objectives. Many of the objectives are 4000 points, anyway, close to what you are talking about.

I believe I have heard in the past, maybe related to the France campaign, that there are a number of smaller objectives to give the AI something to work toward, give form to its movements. So there is probably a need for these smaller objectives, even if they are a nit compared to the main ones.

Rick

jonnymacbrown · 06-16-2006, 05:54 AM,

Ok, I downloaded the latest update, but the VP level information you cite does not carry over to the Multi-Stategic variable option that you and David designed, and in my opinion, the best reason there is for playing the game. Any plans to get the new VP levels over to the Campaign Multi Strategy Version?

**Ricky B** · 06-16-2006, 06:06 AM,

It has been, and the objective points match it - that is the one needing to be updated and released, new Belgian OOB, etc. Gotta fix the couple of things first though, the OOB to work with the strategic option choices being the key one there.

Rick

Dog Soldier · (This post was last modified: 06-16-2006, 06:19 AM by Dog Soldier.)

Ricky is dead on about the reason for the VP totals changes in the F40 campaign. It was possible to not even cross the Louvain - Namur- Meuse River line on the map and still win as the Germans due to Allied casualties.

Prinz von Egan is wrong in thinking the channel objectives should be so high. They would be very valuable if a Sickle Cut strategy for the Germans would work cutting off the French 1st, 6th, and 7th Armies and the BEF in Belgium as was done historically. Against a competent Allied player, no such surprise move through the Ardennes is possible or a quick crossing of the Meuse. If the Allies are forced back relentlessly, they have enough units to prevent a break through. It is only a question of time if they can hold the western VP hexes before the clock runs out. This is in line with the thinking that the Germans had to win a quick victory in the west. A war of attrition on a static front was doomed to failure for the 3rd Reich. the Allies had more resources and would eventually win a longer war just as they did in 1918.

The funny thing is, the Allied player could abandon the south and SW area of the map and concentrate in the north. There is enough supply there to hold out and with the additional forces freed from the south the Germans would have a hard time capturing enough objectives. The allies would have to time such a move until after they have received the fixed units in the south and the reinforcements that come in there. This is possible.... and the excellent amount of rail movement ...I think 50 units at one time, will allow the Allies to get their troops out of the south and into positions in the north.

The weird part is the Allies could win with this strategy while the Germans waltz into Paris and sip champagne on the Avenue des Champs-Elysees!

The objective furthest south is the village Stonne. It is worth 500 VP, I Think. This village sits on on a plateau that dominates that area. west of the Meuse River. It was the ideal jumping off point for a French operational counter attack against a German move from Sedan to the west. Manstien insisted that the area around Stonne be taken to prevent the French from making a counterattack at the base of the German breakthrough.

Dog Soldier

jonnymacbrown · 06-16-2006, 06:15 AM,

Ok and good work Ricky B! Thanks for keeping with this. It really sounds like the newest versions will be worth the wait. Are those changes you mentioned, the slight upgrade in the ratings of some French units, and the down-grading of some of the newer German infantry divisions, a part of all this? I, for one, like to play the large scenario as soon as possible. JE

jonnymacbrown · 06-16-2006, 07:05 AM,

So do you suggest giving Stonne a much higher VP level? JE

The objective furthest south is the village Stonne. It is worth 500 VP, I Think. This village sits on on a plateau that dominates that area. west of the Meuse River. It was the ideal jumping off point for a French operational counter attack against a German move from Sedan to the west. Manstien insisted that the area around Stonne be taken to prevent the French from making a counterattack at the base of the German breakthrough.

Dog Soldier

[/quote]