22. Panzerdivision in S42

[Volcano Man]

Nope, once you delete any unit from the OOB it will break the scenario. You have to remove all the units you want to delete from the scenario first by searching for them one by one and then you can delete them. However, the problem after that is you have deleted them from the scenario file and everything is fine, however, when a user installs the update it will remove it from any games they have in progress, thus breaking their .bte or .btl file requiring a restart.

The alternative is to create another version of the OOB and then change (in the text editor) each scenario file to "point" to this new OOB that has the missing units. This way the user can still continue playing the old games in progress with the old OOBs but any one game is started with the new OOB. Either way, this is a lot of trouble to just remove 10 tanks and a few infantry units. But I am sure Glenn will come up with a novel approach to addressing it.

[Richrd]

No tanks should be removed. The AFV numbers are correct. Just rename the one unit that has the III in the name. That won't affect anything. The PzGr Regt is another story. Rolf Stoves book is the easiest source to get at for this info. There are some choice tidbits found there. 22nd Pz is just too big. On Nov 19 it was a Panzer division in name only. You can remove the 140th PzGr Regt and all its parts, along with the 1st, light battalion, of the artillery regt from the map in the scenario without altering the OOB.

[Glenn Saunders]

.... Rolf Stoves book is the easiest source to get at for this info. There are some choice tidbits found there. 22nd Pz is just too big. On Nov 19 it was a Panzer division in name only. You can remove the 140th PzGr Regt and all its parts, along with the 1st, light battalion, of the artillery regt from the map in the scenario without altering the OOB.

You can reach me by email at [email protected]
...and if you have the book and a scanner and can send me some choice pages that would be great.

I don't doubt what you are saying - but I want to read the info myself and take it in context with what Stove says. I don't have the Stove book and never used it. The books I had didn't indicate the division was understrength - whether this is by ommision or something else is hard to say.

It could be that the GR regt in question was moved to form another division but the Regimet might have been replaced too by other units. The Div was clearly in Reserve and in a rebuilding state with very little fuel for trainning. So the solutionmight be to change the Regt number. This is what we are looking into. I guess you have to keep in mind that depending upon what the info says, there is more than one possible solution then just removing the units from the OOB altogether (which as Ed points out would break all games in progress)

If you have the Stove info and you can send it to me, that would be great. I don't see it available here at the library (Public or University). If you don't have a scanner and could photocoy a few choice pages I can send you a snail mail address, but understand I don't make changes to the Game based on info people post on forums taken at face value. I like to compare various sources.

Anyway - were looking into this and if you can provide us valuable info to consider we'll certainly take it into consideration.

Thanks for the info.

Glenn

[Tanky]

[Tanky]

[Tanky]

[Tanky]

Here's some images from a wehrpass from my collection to a Leutnant in 2./ Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 140 and then 2./ Panzer-Artillerie-Regiment 127 when it was renamed in September 1942.

The top image shows his units. The lower image shows his campaigns...note the 'Einsatz Voronezh from 13.08.42 - 26.11.42'. Voroezh was where Gruppe Michalek from 22. Panzerdivision remained when the rest of the division moved further into the Don bend.

[Tanky]

Similar for a member of PzG Regt 140. The top scan shows his units. The second shows his being wounded by a shell splinter in his left foot at Voronezh at the end of September 1942.

[Glenn Saunders]

Thanks for the info Tanky. I heard from Mike Avanzini last night too on this and he concurs that the units in question such as the "PzG Regt 140" should be there.

I found too in my Nafzinger in the section on the 27. Panzerdivision that these units did indeed seed the new Division. What isn't clear is if any other replacement units were put in place to build back the 22.Panzer during the same period.

I do recall seeing reference to lacking fuel for training but I didn't see anything which confirmed or denied if any replacements units were added to 22.Pz to bring it back up to strength.

IN any case, it seems like an error in the game OOB and we've always said we fix errors - this is no different. I've figured out a way to remove the units from the OOB without taking counters from the Game which will mean that scn in progress won't be affected. The division strength will be reduced overall too.

Changes will be in the next update. Thanks to all for the info.

Glenn

[rzhev42]

Glenn meant to say I agreed that all the units mentioned, i.e. Pz.Gr.Rgt.140, III./Pz.Rgt.204, and I./Pz.Art.Rgt.140 should NOT be included.

For some reason I missed going back and editing this unit with the info I had, sorry about that. As Glenn said he come up with a very nice way of deleting the units without deleteing the counters form the game.

And keep the comments coming, don't feel like like you are raining on the parade. As anyone knows putting together a detailed OOB is not the easiest of tasks, and as much material as I have there is always MUCH more that I do not have. I am always looking for additional information even after a game is completed. As Glenn can atest to, he usually has to wrench the OOB from my hands to start working on the scenarios as I never feel that the OOB is complete.

Michael Avanzini