AMBUSH Feature needed

HirooOnoda · 07-26-2007, 07:18 AM,

agreed with Capt. Cav. All that is needed is a 40% increase in firepower to simulate suprise.

See how easy that was? ;->

Liebchen · 07-26-2007, 07:47 AM,

OK, that's good for the effect, but now, how to determine when the effect applies?

"Dug in & unspotted" doesn't seem to cut it for me. Unspotted to the player would seem to be an operational standard. The units at the scene would, I would imagine, have some form of recon going on as they move. Even if it may be of varying degrees of effectiveness.

I would imagine, for example, that out of a battalion, even a single company or platoon might be sent up forward of the advancing line. They would either draw fire or spot telltale signs of the enemy, right?

Perhaps your mod should only apply to unspotted units that are dug in under cover.

Or do you envision that we should start routinely sending units forward 2/3 of their movement so that they can perform recon every time they are moving in the open?

Hmmm...

HirooOnoda · 07-26-2007, 07:51 AM,

Dug-in and unspotted doesn't do it for you? Isn't that exactly the conditions for an ambush to be successful? Its safe to assume that when a unit digs-in they are sighting their weapons, etc. That alone is reason enough to enhance their combat firepower.

Some schmucks driving their trucks down a road in a forest are going to pay through the nose if some SPETZNAZ unit has set up an ambush.

Won't happen in this game at this point.

Aaron · 07-26-2007, 08:12 AM,

Only people who can even consider doing this is HPS, its beyond being able to mod. For me i find nothing wrong with the way it works, if they added a bonus as Cav as stated it would be fine with me but i can live without which ill probably have to do anyways.

Aaron

Liebchen · 07-26-2007, 10:01 AM,

T Mode penalty doesn't do it for you, Hiro? I hate it, myself.

As for unspotted, I don't read this the same as unspottable. As I said before, just because Corps HQ doesn't know that enemy regt. X is at a coordinate, this does not mean that friendly regt. 1 wouldn't see it upon approaching it.

In game terms, the unit is unspotted until friendlies move into the next hex, at which point they are spotted. Being discovered from a kilometer away is not, necessarily conducive to a successful ambush.

A good ambush is not that easy to set up, especially against oppos that realize they are in no-man's land. Having played a lot of CM, I can attest to that. That's why they're so satisfying when they get good results.

Richrd · 07-26-2007, 12:11 PM,

This is a great idea. Glantz is a great source for these kinds of events. A soviet Tank Brigade was moving to contact at Kursk, was ambushed and lost 30 or so tanks in a few minutes to 9th Army Tigers. A second brigade lost almost as many, almost as quickly. There are many more accounts just like this. It's impossible to duplicate this result. Any unit moving adjacent to an enemy ought to risk the possibility of a 'Critical hit', even one percent.

Liebchen · 07-26-2007, 01:14 PM,

OK, if it's true that this cannot be duplicated in the game then I concede the point. Can anyone show that this is not possible to duplicate?

HirooOnoda · 07-26-2007, 02:05 PM,

Richrd Wrote:This is a great idea. Glantz is a great source for these kinds of events. A soviet Tank Brigade was moving to contact at Kursk, was ambushed and lost 30 or so tanks in a few minutes to 9th Army Tigers. A second brigade lost almost as many, almost as quickly. There are many more accounts just like this. It's impossible to duplicate this result. Any unit moving adjacent to an enemy ought to risk the possibility of a 'Critical hit', even one percent.

Agreed. Don't forget Otto Carius' ambush of a Soviet Tank Brigade with his 6 Tigers. Killed them all.

FLG · 07-26-2007, 05:10 PM,

Richrd Wrote:This is a great idea. Glantz is a great source for these kinds of events. A soviet Tank Brigade was moving to contact at Kursk, was ambushed and lost 30 or so tanks in a few minutes to 9th Army Tigers. A second brigade lost almost as many, almost as quickly. There are many more accounts just like this. It's impossible to duplicate this result. Any unit moving adjacent to an enemy ought to risk the possibility of a 'Critical hit', even one percent.

This would surely be covered by the T-mode penalty. The soviet brigade wasn't in battle formation, they were travelling.

FLG · 07-26-2007, 05:13 PM,

HirooOnoda Wrote:Dug-in and unspotted doesn't do it for you? Isn't that exactly the conditions for an ambush to be successful?

It doesn't do it for me. This is only one side of the equation. There has to be two parts to this, one side to set it up and the other side to walk blindly into it. If a unit is travelling in deployed mode this assumes they are advancing in some sort of proper order.