Using and Killing 88's

[Huib Versloot]

Oops I thought this was about ordinary FlaK 88's

[Jason Petho]

You could smoke one hex away of the 88, to block LOS for the 88... since there is an unlimited supply of smoke. There really isn't a reason to direct fire on the 88, leaving it no targets.

That being the case, driving up to two hexes from the battery should provide enough fire power to bombard the hex to destroy the guns?

In theory anyway.

Jason Petho

[schnurbart]

hmmm...if all i have to do is take out the gun i might like t34 85 and just over run it.

[umbro]

You could smoke one hex away of the 88, to block LOS for the 88... since there is an unlimited supply of smoke. There really isn't a reason to direct fire on the 88, leaving it no targets.

Nice thoughts. One issue is that you need to fire two smokes - one to cover the CS tank so it does not get "smoked" :-) and the other to cover the advance of the sextons. Unfortunately the CS tanks take 55APs to fire so you end up with one Sexton at range 2.
2@15(*.9):13
Even though you get the first shot the 88s polish you off.

umbro

[umbro]

hmmm...if all i have to do is take out the gun i might like t34 85 and just over run it.

Nice. This strategy depends upon whether you are playing the AI or a human player. Against the AI is easier (surprise!) as the AI will choose a target and keep firing at it regardless of whether it is disrupted or not.

It takes three moves to overrun the 88s. This allows the 88s three turns of shots - the first being opfire. You end up with a roughly 2/3rds success rate though your expected losses are higher than the previous strategies (typical ruskies!) as those mechanisms succeed most often when the 88 is disrupted before it can fire at all, whereas the "bullrush" allows the 88 to do its worst.

Against a human opponent the chance of success falls significantly, to below 50/50 as the disruption results on the approach really hurt.

umbro

[Jason Petho]

You could smoke one hex away of the 88, to block LOS for the 88... since there is an unlimited supply of smoke. There really isn't a reason to direct fire on the 88, leaving it no targets.

Nice thoughts. One issue is that you need to fire two smokes - one to cover the CS tank so it does not get "smoked" :-) and the other to cover the advance of the sextons. Unfortunately the CS tanks take 55APs to fire so you end up with one Sexton at range 2.
2@15(*.9):13
Even though you get the first shot the 88s polish you off.

umbro

Why would the group need to be in different hexes? Why not smoke, advance, smoke, advance ... rinse repeat until your close enough to plot arty on the the 88 and destroy it? Therefore you only need one smoke per turn.

Turn 1
88
*smoke
no LOS
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
<>
<>
<>
CS + tanks advance towards 88 at the CS tank pace (45 Action Points Worth)


Turn 2
88
*smoke
no LOS
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
<>
<>
<>
CS + Sextons advance towards 88 at the CS tank pace (45 Action Points Worth)


Turn 3
88
*smoke
no LOS
.
.
<>
<>
<>
CS + Sextons advance towards 88 at the CS tank pace (45 Action Points Worth) and plotting along the way if they choose since they'll have additional AP's left.


Turn 4
88
*smoke
<>
<>
<>
CS + Sextons advance towards 88 at the CS tank pace (45 Action Points Worth) and plotting along the way if they choose since they'll have additional AP's left.

Works in my head anyway. *laughs*

Jason Petho

[schnurbart]

hmmm...if all i have to do is take out the gun i might like t34 85 and just over run it.

Nice. This strategy depends upon whether you are playing the AI or a human player. Against the AI is easier (surprise!) as the AI will choose a target and keep firing at it regardless of whether it is disrupted or not.

It takes three moves to overrun the 88s. This allows the 88s three turns of shots - the first being opfire. You end up with a roughly 2/3rds success rate though your expected losses are higher than the previous strategies (typical ruskies!) as those mechanisms succeed most often when the 88 is disrupted before it can fire at all, whereas the "bullrush" allows the 88 to do its worst.

Against a human opponent the chance of success falls significantly, to below 50/50 as the disruption results on the approach really hurt.

umbro

hmmm..t385 is pretty fast..but i chose this tank because i figured they could be over running the position from within 20 hex vis in two turns. as far as disruptions go there are reasonable chances i think for rallys assuming 50% and two out of the three disrupted. even against a player i think the odds will be roughly even that 2 out of the three will be available on a given turn and once that 88 fires it has fair chances of only being half as good on turn 2.

[Filthy-Missile]

Ok my next guess, and this one is completely unsubstantiated as i have never played with this unit and don't even know it's proper name, is the Shermans that were equipped with rocket launchers on top. A full on salvo of rocket fire and main gun rounds should be able to put some hurt on the 88s right?

[schnurbart]

Ok my next guess, and this one is completely unsubstantiated as i have never played with this unit and don't even know it's proper name, is the Shermans that were equipped with rocket launchers on top. A full on salvo of rocket fire and main gun rounds should be able to put some hurt on the 88s right?

rockets are of coarse scarry but there are target density issues that might mitigate effectiveness. But why not..disrupt it and rush it with the other two. But even so i think Huib is on the right track. An 88 that is known is hard enough to keep even when mutually supported. My prediction is under lab conditions the tanks will win as often as not.(assuming standard allied mediums in 44) But i think the exercise needs to be more clearly defined to really call this idea or that bad.

[umbro]

hmmm..t385 is pretty fast..but i chose this tank because i figured they could be over running the position from within 20 hex vis in two turns.

They are fast, open is 9APs, but overrun takes 20 and the 88 is on a rise, so you have to add 10 for that. Thus they close halfway in turn one, to the base of the rise in turn 2 and overrun in turn three. The 88 thus gets opfire, and two direct fires.

umbro