Market Garden or Scheldt?

[Ricky B]

Personally, from just the campaign perspective, I found the Scheldt version to be more challenging for both players than the original, mostly due to the larger scope. The Germans also have more staying power in it. Not a knock on the original, I just found the action in the Scheldt version lasts to the end, although it struggles with the 1st Airborne surviving until relieved, which impacted the MG version too. But in the MG version, the plays I had usually ended with the Germans crushed and gone south of Nijmegan well before the end.

[JAJ28]

Personally, from just the campaign perspective, I found the Scheldt version to be more challenging for both players than the original, mostly due to the larger scope. The Germans also have more staying power in it. Not a knock on the original, I just found the action in the Scheldt version lasts to the end, although it struggles with the 1st Airborne surviving until relieved, which impacted the MG version too. But in the MG version, the plays I had usually ended with the Germans crushed and gone south of Nijmegan well before the end.

Being new to Blitz and this being my first thread, I must say, Im very impressed with the insight and knowledge. Thank you very much. Really appreciate the information.

Respectfully,
JJ

[Mike Prucha]

Hi JAJ28,

These are my thoughts:

MG '44

Pros:
-Includes many small scenarios covering Arnhem, Nijmegen, Hell's Highway, and the border
-Includes several hypothetical variants of small scenarios and the campaign
-Uses explicit supply, which is probably better for MG airborne landings
-I am guessing that there are probably more players who own MG '44, so you might have more PBEM opponents available


Cons:
-Only covers XXX Corps & Airborne Operations - XII Corps & VIII Corps are omitted
-Map is smaller and less detailed
-OOB has significant inaccuracies (not a knock on the designers, only the reality that that there are many more resources available today than 10-20 years ago)
-Some significant inaccuracies in the placement of units (again, not meant as a knock on the designers, there are just more sources available)
-Unlikely that there will be any significant updates to current scenarios beyond incorporating any art or coding changes

Scheldt '44

Pros:
-Includes entire operation, including XII Corps & VIII Corps (which were really important)
-Larger, more detailed map
-More detailed/accurate OOB
-Increased accuracy with the placement of units (though not perfect - there's still a ton we don't know)
-Recently updated, there will almost certainly be some additional tweaks and improvements in the future
-Lots of scenarios covering lesser known actions from the period in the Netherlands, Belgium, and France

Cons:
-MG material limited to the campaign scenario only - no standalone scenarios featuring Arnhem/Nijmegen etc.
-Does not use explicit supply, which I think is probably less desirable for the airborne troops as we can't represent supply drops, etc
-Might a bit harder to find PBEM opponents (but that is really just a guess)
-Some weirdness with game mechanics relating to full hex ferry & full hex bridge destruction which irks me to no end and forces us some difficult design decisions..


As far as the "feel" of the campaign, I think the larger map gives Scheldt '44 MG scenario a more open feel and creates some realistic uncertainty for both players about where an attack may land, however, the smaller map in MG '44 tends to focus the action along a more historic path. In my experience, the Scheldt '44 version is harder for the Allied player than the MG '44 version, though that may not be everyone's experience.

My take is - buy them both!

But if you can't buy them both, I would say it depends on what you want. If you want the smaller scenarios covering Nijmegen & Arnhem, buy Market '44. If you are principally interested in playing the campaign scenario, both could be a could choice - just depends on what you are looking for in the map/difficulty level/general feel of the scenario, and whether some of the new research and having VIII & XII Corps present is important to you. If you are interested in exploring some action outside of MG, buy Scheldt '44.

As a disclaimer, I helped design Scheldt '44.

-Mike P

[Fog of War]

Deleted

[JAJ28]

Hi JAJ28,

These are my thoughts:

MG '44

Pros:
-Includes many small scenarios covering Arnhem, Nijmegen, Hell's Highway, and the border
-Includes several hypothetical variants of small scenarios and the campaign
-Uses explicit supply, which is probably better for MG airborne landings
-I am guessing that there are probably more players who own MG '44, so you might have more PBEM opponents available


Cons:
-Only covers XXX Corps & Airborne Operations - XII Corps & VIII Corps are omitted
-Map is smaller and less detailed
-OOB has significant inaccuracies (not a knock on the designers, only the reality that that there are many more resources available today than 10-20 years ago)
-Some significant inaccuracies in the placement of units  (again, not meant as a knock on the designers, there are just more sources available)
-Unlikely that there will be any significant updates to current scenarios beyond incorporating any art or coding changes

Scheldt '44

Pros:
-Includes entire operation, including XII Corps & VIII Corps (which were really important)
-Larger, more detailed map
-More detailed/accurate OOB
-Increased accuracy with the placement of units (though not perfect - there's still a ton we don't know)
-Recently updated, there will  almost certainly be some additional tweaks and improvements in the future
-Lots of scenarios covering lesser known actions from the period in the Netherlands, Belgium, and France

Cons:
-MG material limited to the campaign scenario only - no standalone scenarios featuring Arnhem/Nijmegen etc.
-Does not use explicit supply, which I think is probably less desirable for the airborne troops as we can't represent supply drops, etc
-Might a bit harder to find PBEM opponents (but that is really just a guess)
-Some weirdness with game mechanics relating to full hex ferry & full hex bridge destruction which irks me to no end and forces us some difficult design decisions..


As far as the "feel" of the campaign, I think the larger map gives Scheldt '44 MG scenario a more open feel and creates some realistic uncertainty for both players about where an attack may land, however, the smaller map in MG '44 tends to focus the action along a more historic path.  In my experience, the Scheldt '44 version is harder for the Allied player than the MG '44 version, though that may not be everyone's experience.

My take is - buy them both!

But if you can't buy them both, I would say it depends on what you want. If you want the smaller scenarios covering Nijmegen & Arnhem, buy Market '44. If you are principally interested in playing the campaign scenario, both could be a could choice - just depends on what you are looking for in the map/difficulty level/general feel of the scenario, and whether some of the new research and having VIII & XII Corps present is important to you. If you are interested in exploring some action outside of MG, buy Scheldt '44.

As a disclaimer, I helped design Scheldt '44.

-Mike P

The shameless plug is warranted. I think I will purchase Scheldt first. And if it doesn’t scratch the itch for Market Garden specifically, I will get MG 44. Thanks to everyone for the feedback!

-JJ

[ComradeP]

Feel free to send a PM when you've purchased Scheldt '44 and are looking for a game.