Can the Soviets win in Kursk?

[Mr Grumpy]

Sorry, Volcano Man. I didn't realize there were continual updates. The version I was using is a few months old (the panzer divisions were Morale A).

Are you signed up to Ed's Vmods site VMods if not you need to do that, then you will receive regular updates about changes to his scenarios. ;)

[Krak]

Anyway, the point is, the ground conditions (not just visibility) was more of a factor than it currently seems.

I think that the weather conditions are very much a play balance issue in many of the longer games, not just in K43. As a guy who only plays the campaign scenarios I am constantly reviewing the weather probabilities in the weather.dat file. Take Gazala for example, if you play with default weather you are looking at clear weather every day, a British nightmare, if you use programmed weather you will see storms for well, ballpark 1 out of every 3 or 4 days. That is a big help for the Brits. Same for the Germans in Normandy. Nothing slows an advance like a storm or mud. Anyway my point is that weather is a key factor in long games, just as in real warfare. Me thinks in general more attention needs to be paid to it.

[Volcano Man]

I was making K43_Alt campaign changes recently, and will probably make a few more that I have been putting off. Specifically, it doesn't make much sense to have the areas along the main German axis of advance as the weakest parts in the soviet lines. By "weakest", I am not talking in terms of minefields and AT ditches. These places were filled with pillboxes, bunkers, blockhouses etc. I think the fear in the past was that the Germans needed a "helping hand" to get through these defenses, but that is obviously not the case.

In the next _Alt I will probably make extensive changes in this area (in addition to all the other changes I am making) and the campaign will definitely be better balanced to a tough, time consuming slog through the Russian defenses instead of a walk in the park.

*corrected a typo*

[Volcano Man]

Sorry, Volcano Man. I didn't realize there were continual updates. The version I was using is a few months old (the panzer divisions were Morale A).

Are you signed up to Ed's Vmods site VMods if not you need to do that, then you will receive regular updates about changes to his scenarios. ;)

Funny thing that, the vmods.com forum was created for the primary purpose for the community to discuss ideas for balance. But do people take the time to post there? Noooooo! ;)

(actually there have been plenty of good discussions there)

[James Ward]

The Alt campaign is not balanced for PBEM, Volcano Man. A good test for balance is whether you can look at a game you lost and say, "If I had done this instead of that, I would have won."

In the regular campaign, the Germans can penetrate all the fortified lines on the first day. In the Alt campaign, they penetrate the lines and then either storm the gaps in the anti-tank ditches (easy to disrupt and assault the Morale D Soviet defenders), or they use their plentiful engineers to breach the ditches. Either way, I don't see what the Soviets can do. If they don't retreat from their trenches, they did. If they fight in the open, they die.

If you know someone who thinks they can win as the Soviets, let me know. I'm happy to play them in a PBEM and see if I'm wrong.

Concerning the Alt campaigns and AT ditches, have you ever had a breach attempt fail? Given all the engineer units the Germans have the AT ditches seem to hinder the Russian retreat more than the German advance.

[Volcano Man]

The Russian "foot" infantry can cross the AT ditches without a problem, but their motorized and tanks cannot. All you need to do is ensure that these units have an escape route through the AT ditches, you don't have to worry about the non motorized infantry.

If I am not mistaken, you cannot set the strength of the AT ditch in the PDT file like you can set the strength of a bridge (to make it so that an Engineer attack might fail). I could be wrong about that though.

[von Waldenburg]

Yes, of course, but is not a normal battle, you need 3 or 4 days of frantic and precise regroupments, along with an almost inmaculate execution of a fighting withdrawal in unfavorable odds, but with the clever use of terrain it can be done in my opinion, not a sure bet but a good chance. I'm referring more precisely to the southern part which is more fluid than the north.

[James Ward]

The Russian "foot" infantry can cross the AT ditches without a problem, but their motorized and tanks cannot. All you need to do is ensure that these units have an escape route through the AT ditches, you don't have to worry about the non motorized infantry.

If I am not mistaken, you cannot set the strength of the AT ditch in the PDT file like you can set the strength of a bridge (to make it so that an Engineer attack might fail). I could be wrong about that though.

How do they cross them? Every time I try it won't let me. Do the need an engineer, like crossing a river?

[Volcano Man]

You should just be able to move across them at the expense of all MPs. If you cannot do this then you need to get the latest K43_Alt update. About a month ago I inadvertently changed it to where they could not cross them and I had to update it to fix that. :(

[Volcano Man]

Actually, you can go ahead and download the K43_Alt pack again -- I just made an extensive update with some changes that I had meaning to make (14 FEB). Try it out now, there should be no question about it being more historically "balanced".