First World War Campaigns: FRANCE 1914

[Mr Grumpy]

Will the OOB be modable? or it we will have to wait to other titles to see other battles covered?

That is a question for VM (who is at TC3), the copy i have just has the basic files. ;)

[Jazman]

Chris Dean at NWS also has it available for pre-order:

http://yhst-12000246778232.stores.yahoo.net/

[Bidermann]

What a great game to add to the HPS , just looking foward to the 1917-18
with the battle of Amiens with 300 + tanks!!

But 1914 - 15 is a great part of the war,a bit of movement and trenches had not spread across the whole of the front.

Well done HPS

[Volcano Man]

Definite order but does the inclusion of only the eastern outskirts of Paris mean there is no scenario to try to implement the 1905 (I believe) version of the Schlieffen Plan?

I just want to clarify something (I am away at the moment, but can use this wonderful community PC at the hotel for about one minute *sarcasm*):

Actually, ALL of Paris is represented on the campaign map (the early campaign that is), as well as about 30 or more hexes (just a rough guess) further to the west of it. So, the Germans can indeed try to evelope Paris from the north and northwest if they want in the early campaign, there are certainly objectives around Paris for such a move, but doing so would thin their already stretched line out and the Germans will fine that there are more objectives along the historic route (to act as what I call "bread crumbs"). Lets just say that the breadcrumbs and what the allies do in reaction to the German advance will probably cause a somewhat historical advance path.

Also, everyone/anyone can also make an alternate campaign of "what if" von Moltke did not pull all those divisions away from the wing, and I want to do this with S|O options one day as an expansion, but sadly it was something I was unable to get around to doing. :(

Anyway, I hope that clears up the issue.

[Dog Soldier]

[SNIP]
The rule also prevents defenders leaving very small (50 men) units to block bridges with their ZOC while the main force can retreat away.

The rule is not a perfect solution i agree, but at least there is now the threat of units being able to cross which otherwise would not be possible.

I hope to see the rule in PzC where linked to the ability of engineers to ferry troops would make "straddling" a far less effective tactic. ;)

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You must have been in 1914 too long.

By France 1940 (and in all PzC titles) the "straddling" bridge defense is handled in one of two ways depending on what else is around. If it is only a holding force of very small (50 men) units to block bridges with their ZOC while the main force can retreat away then disrupt them as usual, bring up an engineer, load a Bn or three companies of infantry into the little rubber boats and ferry these across to to a hex adjacent to the defenders. Drive the bugger defenders out of their hex the next turn with an assault.
Second choice is basically the same, but instead of ferrying the infantry to a safe hex across the river, just assault ferry them and kick the holding force out of its hex right then and there. The advantage to this tactic is you should have troops ready to exploit across the newly opend bridge and protect your ferried assault infantry at a minimum.

Either way the block is removed in on the turn you disrupt if with direct fire etc. or at least with only one turn delay.

Dog Soldier

Set up your ferry assault


Bang! Assault ferry success! The bridge is now open for traffic.

[P.Ako]

Definite order but does the inclusion of only the eastern outskirts of Paris mean there is no scenario to try to implement the 1905 (I believe) version of the Schlieffen Plan?

I just want to clarify something (I am away at the moment, but can use this wonderful community PC at the hotel for about one minute *sarcasm*):

Actually, ALL of Paris is represented on the campaign map (the early campaign that is), as well as about 30 or more hexes (just a rough guess) further to the west of it. So, the Germans can indeed try to evelope Paris from the north and northwest if they want in the early campaign, there are certainly objectives around Paris for such a move, but doing so would thin their already stretched line out and the Germans will fine that there are more objectives along the historic route (to act as what I call "bread crumbs"). Lets just say that the breadcrumbs and what the allies do in reaction to the German advance will probably cause a somewhat historical advance path.

Also, everyone/anyone can also make an alternate campaign of "what if" von Moltke did not pull all those divisions away from the wing, and I want to do this with S|O options one day as an expansion, but sadly it was something I was unable to get around to doing. :(

Anyway, I hope that clears up the issue.

So.. does it means that the OOB will be modable?

[-72-]

Definite order but does the inclusion of only the eastern outskirts of Paris mean there is no scenario to try to implement the 1905 (I believe) version of the Schlieffen Plan?

I just want to clarify something (I am away at the moment, but can use this wonderful community PC at the hotel for about one minute *sarcasm*):

Actually, ALL of Paris is represented on the campaign map (the early campaign that is), as well as about 30 or more hexes (just a rough guess) further to the west of it. So, the Germans can indeed try to envelope Paris from the north and northwest if they want in the early campaign, there are certainly objectives around Paris for such a move, but doing so would thin their already stretched line out and the Germans will fine that there are more objectives along the historic route (to act as what I call "bread crumbs"). Lets just say that the breadcrumbs and what the allies do in reaction to the German advance will probably cause a somewhat historical advance path.

Also, everyone/anyone can also make an alternate campaign of "what if" von Moltke did not pull all those divisions away from the wing, and I want to do this with S|O options one day as an expansion, but sadly it was something I was unable to get around to doing. :(

Anyway, I hope that clears up the issue.

Interesting stuff - I imagine that the command control system in this one makes it fairly tough as well (if I read foul's article correctly) -which seems to indicate that an extended line is going to have a lot more "issues" than say, an equivalent one in a PzC game. And all this would be consistent with a boardgame I'd played (Schlieffen Plan by SPW) -where the HQ's really dictate where you can go and still fight effectively. I don't think that Schlieffen, himself, had accounted for the lethality that weaponry of that day had (in other words I don't think he counted on some of the big big losses and what effect that would have on a plan laid out on paper).

Was wondering if the French attacks on Alsace Lorraine are included (the Press Kit didn't seem to mention them - or I missed it).

[Mr Grumpy]

Definite order but does the inclusion of only the eastern outskirts of Paris mean there is no scenario to try to implement the 1905 (I believe) version of the Schlieffen Plan?

I just want to clarify something (I am away at the moment, but can use this wonderful community PC at the hotel for about one minute *sarcasm*):

Actually, ALL of Paris is represented on the campaign map (the early campaign that is), as well as about 30 or more hexes (just a rough guess) further to the west of it. So, the Germans can indeed try to envelope Paris from the north and northwest if they want in the early campaign, there are certainly objectives around Paris for such a move, but doing so would thin their already stretched line out and the Germans will fine that there are more objectives along the historic route (to act as what I call "bread crumbs"). Lets just say that the breadcrumbs and what the allies do in reaction to the German advance will probably cause a somewhat historical advance path.

Also, everyone/anyone can also make an alternate campaign of "what if" von Moltke did not pull all those divisions away from the wing, and I want to do this with S|O options one day as an expansion, but sadly it was something I was unable to get around to doing. :(

Anyway, I hope that clears up the issue.

Interesting stuff - I imagine that the command control system in this one makes it fairly tough as well (if I read foul's article correctly) -which seems to indicate that an extended line is going to have a lot more "issues" than say, an equivalent one in a PzC game. And all this would be consistent with a boardgame I'd played (Schlieffen Plan by SPW) -where the HQ's really dictate where you can go and still fight effectively. I don't think that Schlieffen, himself, had accounted for the lethality that weaponry of that day had (in other words I don't think he counted on some of the big big losses and what effect that would have on a plan laid out on paper).

Was wondering if the French attacks on Alsace Lorraine are included (the Press Kit didn't seem to mention them - or I missed it).

Yes the one level drop in morale is the main reason why you should not spread your brigades out, this is not the case in PzC, i believe the title covers the fighting around Nancy and Verdun but not south of there (correct me VM if i am wrong) :rolleyes:

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Brian,
My comment about the 50 men blocking the bridge with their ZOC was referring to F14 where you cannot ferry troops across rivers AND with the alt fire rules in place small units do not take many losses, hence if the "Forced Bridge" rule was not in place you cannot destroy the 50 man unit with direct or indirect fire, hence the need for the new rule.

Even in PzC where you have demonstrated that "straddling" is not as effective (assuming you have engineers handy) i think this rule would still be useful as anything that makes straddling less effective is a positive move IMO. :)

[Dog Soldier]

[SNIP]
Even in PzC where you have demonstrated that "straddling" is not as effective (assuming you have engineers handy) i think this rule would still be useful as anything that makes straddling less effective is a positive move IMO. :)

Darran,
Yes, I can see the value in the FWW F14 title for this new rule. Makes sense as you said. I wonder if it makes storming the Yser canal easier for the Germans.

I just want to point out that there are many ways to handle this defensive tactic in PzC. The defensive tactic of "straddling" came about because attacking players could storm bridges pretty easily when defending units are placed in the exit bridge hex.
The rule is not needed IMHO in PzC since there can be unintended consequences for the defenders, weakening the defense again in PzC. Weakening the defense is not a good idea since the offense side has so much power.

Take a situation where you line up some attacking units next to the "straddled" defenders. Consider that grid line is running perfectly north - south and so if the river. ZOC of the attackers now control both empty hexes at either end of the bridge which is in the adjacent hexes to the south and south east. Now the defenders are at a disadvantage already due to the attacker's ZOC extending across the river. This restricts the defense from redeploying easily. Why make it easier for the attackers?

Under this new rule, I can send a unit across the bridge in T mode ignoring the defender's ZOC. Next turn I take them out of T mode and assault the defenders to open the bridge for more attackers to pass.
In WW2, this was very rarely done. The need for engineers to ferry a unit across the river to strike the defenders on the opposite shore was much more common. Since bridges in PzC are hex side objects, there is no way to simulate the obstacles that usually were thrown up by the defenders to prevent a rush across the bridge. Even some barbed wire would slow an infantry assault force so the defenders could pin them or drive them back with fire power.

You mention the need for handy engineers. Well partisans will do the trick in a pinch. Move the partisans into the far end bridge hex. They will then pin the defenders (negate the ZOC) so you can roll your T mode unit over the bridge. Same result as the new rule, except the attacker has to plan ahead.

I have now shown three ways to beat the "straddled" bridge defense. It just is not that hard if you really plan ahead that such a defense will be there when you want to try and cross a bridge. The defensive tactic is pretty minor, IMHO and easily over come.

Bridges are a confined space with little or no cover. Rushing across one under fire was only done when the enemy consisted of a small (10 man) or less bridge guard that was surprised by a ruse of some kind.

Then there is the whole can of worms for this rule to consider about how this would apply to full water hex bridges in some titles of PzC. Can I cross a hex side bridge across a river but not a full water hex bridge? Do I get more defensive fire chances to stop the attack rush on a full water hex bridge than a hex side river bridge?

I think more thought is required before promoting wholesale the porting over of rules from a new title in a different era to PzC. The idea to do is intriguing. The rule of unintended consequences says take time to noodle this out some more.

Dog Soldier

[Volcano Man]

So.. does it means that the OOB will be modable?

Well, if you had to ask then you probably suspect that there isn't an OOB editor for quite obvious reasons, and the answer is no, unfortunately there is no OOB editor in this series. However there is a scenario editor and all the ORBATs can be read externally in their own .pdf documents (three of them) along with planning maps, stragetic maps and things like that.

The reason for this, as mentioned, should be quite obvious. We have the entire map of France available, or at least the most important parts of it anyway, and allowing an OOB editor would simply allow anyone to make their own France '15-18 games. While it might seem like a good thing to allow that, the amount of work spent creating this new series and its unique rules, which was about four years in case anyone wants to know, means that the investment has to be protected (at least until the last campaign is covered, at which point there might be a OOB editor made available). I hope everyone understands.