z fire

[Epoletov [SPR].]

I read Vasily's Krysov book " Batery, fire! ", it was at war on KV, SU-122, SU-85, T--34-85.

And it writes, that German tankmen left the fighting machines, елси they were not serviceable.
For German command the main thing was to keep crew.
It was ordered to Soviet tankmen to remain in the damaged tanks and to continue fight.
They could leave them, only if the tank will light up.
Otherwise execution, but many voluntary so were at war.
Different mentality of Germans and Russian, different education and the attitude to human life.

The trained crew will not be afraid of that that to it not dangerously. :smoke:
And cowards always were in each army, but of them quickly got rid during war. ;)

[GUNSLNGR]

GUNSLNGR:

where your troops moving the turn you used the z-fire o short range? If so the game assumes them to be happening more or less at the same time, ie you're firing on the move and that's very inaccurate

I'm sure both yes and no. I do know of specific instances where I've had multiple units, that have not moved that turn, fire at a location and very, very few rounds land in the target hex. It seems in urban locations, where suppressive fire is the name of the game, its more hazardous on your own guys than the bad guys.

What I question - and believe me I know nothing about writing code - is why can't suppressive fire be more accurate to a specific hex but less prone to hit than direct fire on a target? Particularly if the target hex is in LOS. If a building is in LOS and 200 meters in front of me - I should be able to hit that building (given I haven't just run 200 meters in full kit or am firing blindly over a wall ). I know the game doesn't really see the objects in the hexes independently (a hex with a building dosen't mean the whole is hex is a building), but you get my point (or maybe you don't...I confuse easily).

GUNSLNGR

[GUNSLNGR]

I guess so!

In general I'd like to give this reminder to everyone, when you first move a unit and then fire it, yóu may have stopped moving it but the game assumes it's still moving during the fire sequence that same turn. The faster you moved the less accurate the firing becomes. Infantry that moved 3 or more hexes is at least jogging or even running. Can't fire very accurately when doing that; even big red barns close by can be missed! ;)

Narwan

Perhaps I should read the thread further before I reply in the future...This could perhaps be the case. I believe this requires...more extensive research.

GUNSLNGR

[Jolly Roger]

Hi folks.

As a player, who has used z-fire tactics in a really excessive way,
I apologize for every minute wasted in front of the screen :whis:

It started to make me feel sick too, so I´ve stopped playing SPWW2
until this feature has been corrected. Now my favourite is SPH2H
( no more z-fire ! :kill: )

In my opinion it can´t be realistic to fire shells far out of the LOS,
unless we are not talking about mortars or howitzers etc.

Guess I know, which cheating art. z-fire tactics Jason meant.
These opportunities should be considered bugs and not tactics.

Cheers, Klaus

[Greybeard]

Hello Guys,

Well, I use Z-fire usually under the following:

Assaults.. recon indicates that the MLR is reached, and I don't like to bash my troops against the spikes.. so I toss some smoke from artillery/SP guns.. use the SP guns & MG's to 'z' fire into an area to soften things up a little, and push the recon on to make contact.. if no contact then I stop wasting ammo and puch the recon out a little farther..

running like hell... anything that will slow down the oncoming horde is helpful.. usuallu 2 platoons are running and MG's with the last platoon are covering at the end of their movement..

City fight.. never try to clear a city block without cover fire.. otherwise the other troops will just grin and enjoy having target practice..

On the line of advance.. if you are getting close to where the enemy might be.. then a little 'z' fire helps..

Onn the defense.. when an opponent concentrates troops into an area the creates a target rich environment.. well, it's hard to resist, and darn helpful to slow the momentum.. very useful for slowing down engineer types that are trying to break thru static defenses.. doesn't usually stop them, but lends enough time to reposition troops for a reasonablr chance to plug the hole..

At tanks.. makes the crews button down to avoid getting their hair parted.. helps the AT teams do their job and actually survive..

Greybeard

[GUNSLNGR]

Yes Greybeard, I've experienced all that first hand...

I conducted my own, non-scientific study into the accuracy of the so-called z-fire, and the results are somewhat surprising...or not depending on which side of the debate you lie (or is it lay?):

First, you definately have better accuracy on a targeted hex if you don't move that turn or the previous one. I found that infantry and armor would hit 100% in hexes 100 meters or less away if they had not moved.

The rub is at about 200 meters and beyond. If you have line of sight and z-fire at a hex 200 meters away the accuracy, or really how many bursts hit a given hex, drops considerably. For infantry, I saw a drop as much as 50 to 75% at 200 meters. Armor seems to do a little better up to about 250 meters, but then its accuracy drops off as well.

Now, the other argument on the unrestricted use of z-fire beyond LOS also had some interesting results. When shooting beyond line of sight, whether moving or stationary, hits went down dramatically. This is kinda obvious, but what was interesting was how far off. At around 1500 meters, a tanks accuracy was pretty close to nil with round hitting up to 200 meters or more off target.

So standing firmly behind my 0-7 record against you worthy opponents, I'd say that z-fire in SPWW2 is fairly accurate to the "real world". In so much as, if you use it like it was meant - to suppress troops you can't see before moving other units or keeping the heads down of something unseen but located - it works pretty well within reason. If you want to just blast away with every unit you've got, you'll probably get some results depending on how the other guys is deployed - but mostly your rounds will land in empty hexes. And you will cause great frustration on your opponent...which is maybe what was originally intended.

Thank you for your support,

GUNSLNGR

[retired from gaming]

So standing firmly behind my 0-7 record against you worthy opponents,

TIP : keep this win ratio for another 93 games and you get extra medal !

[Walrus]

If you want to just blast away with every unit you've got, you'll probably get some results depending on how the other guys is deployed - but mostly your rounds will land in empty hexes. And you will cause great frustration on your opponent...which is maybe what was originally intended.

...and that, my friend, is the rub.
That's why I will tend to play guys that use it sensibly rather than exclusivly.

All very interesting posts guys.
Thanks for pulling some tests there GUNSLNGR.
All good info.

Have at it!
Hurrah!