22. Panzerdivision in S42

[milan]

Hey Michael Avanzini,

can you also check this:

1. Soviet 26th tank korps have wrong number/type of tanks:
157 TBr
T34 = 32 from them 1 under repair, T70 = 21 - on the move.
19 TBr
T34 = 32 - on the move, T70 = 21 - on the move.
216 TBr
KV = 24 - on the move, T70 = 27 from them 1 under repair, T34 = 4 on the move.

2. Soviet 5th tank army - separate tank battalions - wrong type and strength:
510 SFTB (Separate Flamethrower Tank Batallion)
KV =10; T34 =11
511 SFTB (Separate Flamethrower Tank Batallion):
KV = 8; T34 = 10
All tanks in those battalions are flamethrower tanks, not ordinaty KV-1 tanks

[rzhev42]

Milicko

Can you send me a scan of your source for these numbers. Unfortunately I only had total tank numbers for the 26TC.

Also I have later (1944) 500 series tank battalions as all Flamethrower so this makes sense to me that these 2 battalions were flamethrowers also. I did not have this info at the time we put together te OOB.

These would be easy changes to make but I would like to see the source to verify.

Michael Avanzini

[milan]

Hello Michael,

I founded this data on axishistory forum. The guy lists several documents from "The central Archive of the Ministry for Defenses of the Russian Federation", that are his personal findings. There are several documents listed, all confirming this data.

Check this links:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.p...&start=105
And next page:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.p...&start=120

Look for quoted text in posts from "Yuri"

Also as I'm aware tank brigades at that time usually had around 30 T-34s and 20 T-70s, and in current OOB it looks like 20 T-34s and 30 T-70s so it seem logical also.

milicko

[Richrd]

Charles Sharp is one source for the 510 and 511th. He has them at 21 apiece, mixed T-34s and KVs.

[rzhev42]

Milicko

I did not even see that the tank quantities where reversed in the OOB. I went back and looked at my original OOB and I had them as 30 T-34s and 20 T-70s so somehow they got reversed before the game came out.

Thanks for the link to the axis forum, I am usually looking on there but I had not been for months now. Good insight into the Flamethrower battalions.

I will forward Glenn the changes for the next upgrade.

THanks
michael Avanzini

[milan]

Thanks Michael,

one more thing to look at for Moscow '41 Vyazma OOB:
2nd and 5th panzer divisions were fresh formations, just arrived from France. They were at full strength with 180 tanks in each division. Also why do artillery (standard 105mm and 150mm howitzers) have 16 guns - 12 guns was standard strength for German arty battalions.

milicko

[rzhev42]

I did not do the Moscow OOB.

Michael

[rzhev42]

Richard

What volume in the Sharp's books did you see this? He does not list tank battalions IIRC. I did see them in Vol II under the Tank units for Nov 19 1942, but it did not specifically call them out as FT Tanks. I'm guessing I missed these somehow.

Part of the problem with these Flamethrower Tanks is that in the BSSA in 1944, these battalions are listed under the Engineer section and in fact each Assault Engineer Brigade had a battalion of FT Tanks attached. It seems that in the 1942 monthlies these are listed as Tank units.

Like I said we will change these in the update and make a mixed
KV/T-34 FT unit to keep these at one counter.

Michael

[Richrd]

Soviet Order of Battle, Volume two. Page 100. "Flamethrower Tank Battalions had 21 tanks each, a mixture of OT-34s and KV-8s." I was surprised that it did not name these two battalions specifically, as I was certain it did. Also note that the OOB for Nov 19 on the preceding pages makes no reference to them at all. Somewhere among my sources I am sure I found a more direct reference but I'll have to hunt a bit now.

[Richrd]

Oh, and I also have a Soviet map that shows several Soviet Schools Brigades or Regts on the approaches to Stalingrad in August. I'll get their names and perhaps, composition as soon as possible.