King Tiger

10-11-2006, 08:43 AM,

Concur on the breakthrough tank approach, the ratio of JS to T-34 was 1-10 if I recall. It was never intended to go against german tanks on a 1-1 basis. SU's were there for that. But of course the Soviet doctrine didnt revolve around winning the Tactical battle as did the Western allies and Germans but was much more of a strategic outlook.

10-11-2006, 08:45 AM,

Deleted as it was the infamous Blitz double post!

Soldier · (This post was last modified: 10-11-2006, 10:33 AM by Soldier.)

Vartuoosi · 10-11-2006, 10:30 PM,

Assault guns weren't designed as break through tanks. They were designed more as armored infantryguns to knock out bunkers, mg positions etc and later they developed into anti-tank vehicles.

Soldier · (This post was last modified: 10-13-2006, 07:00 AM by Soldier.)

Fullhouse · 10-13-2006, 05:08 AM,

Funny I read recently an article on the wargammer site that refrenced Soviet testing of the King Tiger.

The conclusion of that thread was that in most games the KT is vastly over modeled. This is because the armour quality is overmodeled.

Even though the KT had plenty of armour, due to shortages of rare but vital alloys in late war Germany this armour was of a low quality. The learned opinion was that this is rarely if ever taken into account when war games model the KT.

Soldier · 10-13-2006, 05:20 AM,

I tend to believe it.
Recall reading an account (somewhere) where soviets claimed that they could and did penetrate the frontal armor of the King Tiger. (Photo shown)
Don't recall whether this took place under a controlled test/experiment after the war, or during the war.
Not sure if caliber and distance/range were mentioned..

McIvan · 10-13-2006, 06:55 AM,

I was interested to learn that the IS-II is in fact only the same weight as a Panther, more or less. Thinking of it as a "heavy" tank akin to the Tiger II is not really correct.

Rate of fire was a real problem, so the Russians used "scoot n shoot" tactics....one shot, retire & reload, move forward again. German heavies died in time. The kinetic effect of a 122mm round was considerable, even if it didn't penetrate the armour.

The Panther's gun could penetrate the IS-II turret for a fair range, if it ht at a reasonable angle, but not the front glacis. The IS-II was designed to defeat rounds from the 75mm L48, if I recall correctly, not the 75mm L70 or 88mm, although it could often defeat those as well.

I don't know enough about the breakthrough doctrine to comment on that.

Chipmunk · 10-13-2006, 06:58 AM,

Regarding the employment of JS tanks, I found this on the wikipedia:

"The IS-2 first saw combat in the spring of 1944. IS-2s were assigned to separate heavy tank regiments, normally of 21 tanks each. These regiments were used to reinforce the most important attack sectors during major offensive operations. Tactically, they were employed as breakthrough tanks. Their role was to support Infantry in the assault, using their large guns to destroy bunkers, buildings, dug-in crew-served weapons, and other 'soft' targets. They were also capable of taking on any German AFV if the need arose. Once a breakthrough was achieved, lighter, more mobile T-34s would take over the exploitation."

Soldier · 10-13-2006, 07:22 AM,

OK..so they've served the same purpose as most assault gun types did, etc.
Which I did mention earlier.
There's one thing that puzzles me about that. Why bother to built one with a turret. (Turret less are lot cheaper and quicker to built)
Unless of course it's just an another all around tank, keeping up with the demands of the times. More armor, bigger gun and engine, etc. etc..

Back to the original subject, the King Tiger.
Check out this web site! [achtungpanzer.com/pz5.htm]