Frequency of AT mine detonation

[GreenHornet]

This is something I did a while ago and thought some of you might be interested...

After having cases in several past games where my opponent has driven a tank straight through an AT minefield and nothing happens, I decided to do an AT mine test. After all, I was finding it a bit frustrating when you happen to guess correctly in the AT mine placement, gloat while you watch the enemy tanks drive straight into your minefield, and then.......nothing. :hissy:

These are not daisy-chain mines but "normal" AT mines. For some silly reason I had always thought the detonation rate was close to 100%. Certainly, I don't I expect to KO a tank 100% of the time, but I thought if a tracked vehicle drove across an AT minefield, it would almost ALWAYS detonate.

Anyway, after doing my tests, it turns out the frequency of AT mine detonation in CM is actually below 50%.

I used 100 Panzer IVH's crossing through a solid line of AT mines placed end to end. I had a single row of continuous AT mines placed in open terrain and made sure there were no gaps between the AT mine "units".

I ordered the Panzers to hunt straight through the line of AT mines.

Results-
Tanks Knocked out - 16
Tanks Immobilized - 28
Tanks OK (safely passed through mines) - 56

I realize the sample is fairly low, but AT mines only detonating 44% of the time was surprisingly low to me. I didn't realize AT mines were such a gamble.

[Larry Thorne (FGM)]

Another test on this posted in TPG
http://www.the-proving-grounds.com/tacti...tml?sku=82

[DerBlitzer]

What about mine detection? When does a unit see an enemy minefield?

[GreenHornet]

Not sure about AT mine detection DerBlitzer. I didn't do any testing in that area.

Interesting post/test on the subject at TPG. That test used a much larger sample so the percentages are probably more accurate than mine.

I know the biggest thing I learned back then was that there is a very real probability that a vehicle can drive right over your AT minefield without detonating a single mine. I guess this makes perfect sense since the mines were scattered within the field. I was just surprised that the chance for a vehicle to get through a field cleanly was that high (approx 33%).

[Der Kuenstler]

What about mine detection? When does a unit see an enemy minefield?

The answer to that is, unfortunately, not until a mine goes off. I believe the odds of setting off a mine are reduced more after the minefield is detected. Not sure on that though.

It seems like that 66% rule works until it's MY tank driving through there - then it jumps to 100%. :(

[DerBlitzer]

The answer to that is, unfortunately, not until a mine goes off. I believe the odds of setting off a mine are reduced more after the minefield is detected. Not sure on that though.

I swear I've detected mines when a unit passed within a certain distance. I mean, these minefields do have signs... :)

But maybe I did step on one and had simply attributed the loss of a man to gunfire. I wish the game produced an explosion when you stepped on or rolled over one---it'd be easier to tell when your guys were turned into ground beef.

[Larry Thorne (FGM)]

Well infantry units such as engineers and pioneers and HQ units can spot AT mines and clear them (pioneer and engineers) by getting them into the 20m area to clear them without detonating them (this takes between 1-3mintes, just leave the unit into the minefield area and after few turns you see the minefield marker dissappear) or by throwing satchel/grenade bundles into the minefield from outside the area by using area fire on the minefield. But be careful when using explosives...if you are too close you might end up killing some of the units as the mines and explosives go BOOM.

So in order to avoid AT mines never lead with tanks always have infantry units scout the area of travel. The slower you go the more probable the TA minefield will be spotted by infantry unit. Clear the minfields and move along with tanks. If you deside t go aroun the minefield...beware it is probable that there will be another minfield on your path to go around. The most common thing to do when setting minefields is to put daisychainmines on the reaod. These are easily spotted and units go around them...BOOM they hit the actual minefield. Located nearby on the usually only way to go around the daisy-chain minefield.

Cheers
LT

[Copper]

[quote=Der Kuenstler]I wish the game produced an explosion when you stepped on or rolled over one---it'd be easier to tell when your guys were turned into ground beef.

I think it does create an explosion when inf step on a mine.

Bootie

[Kil Roy]

Not that this is the norm but I was playing an OP. When I set up for the second game I placed a HQ and an AT gun right in an AT mine field. It turned out that there were about 3 mine fields there and neither the HQ nor the AT gun crew saw any of the mine fields that they were in or right next too. Three tanks moved over the mine fields for a 100% immobilized tanks. Also there were BANGS heard and engines stopped when the mines went off but no graphic to show that it was a mine that stopped my tanks. So I moved engineers into the area to check for more mines and remove the ones that were found. In the next game the set up line was moved up a bit and I found a fourth minefield in that area (yes another immobile tank) and I know engineer units walked slowly through that area. So in closing nothing is 100% in CM. I feel that there is a lot of luck in the game (as in life) and you just try and minimize its effect on your side of the game.

[Der Kuenstler]

This is from the CMBB manual, page 65:

"Note: Dug in mines are never spotted unless one actually explodes!"

Someone could test that in the editor if they wanted. (just sit an engineer platoon near a minefield and see if they ever spot it)

It also says that the faster you move, the more likely you are to set one off. Once a mine goes off the minefield becomes visible. Once visible a mine is less likely to go off. (troops being more careful I guess)

Also, troops cannot trip buried AT mines, so apparently you have to lose or disable a vehicle in order to find those.