experimental rules in MBT

Weasel · 01-07-2007, 04:33 AM,

klanx171 Wrote:Im just wondering froma gameplay point of view how would the FO rule be enforced and what is it like in reality, ie how much can one FO handel, being that there are actually 2-5 men in the unit?

Before game start players exchange how many FOOs they have. If your opponent has three and fire lands in five different locations during a turn then you know there is a problem. Works fine.

Grumbler · 01-07-2007, 08:09 AM,

Or you could save the e-mail and after the game is finished, look at the roster and see. BTW, Having a .5 request means that the next turn will be a 0.0 (FFE-fire for effect) So it would be posssible for 1 FO to request fire at an off the dime target with a 2.1 delay, then the next turn request fire from a dime with an off set for a 1.4 delay (request A is now at 1.1, then the next turn request fire on a dime with a 1.0 delay (requests A & B are now at .1 and .4).
If you adjust the fire from request A (.2 delay) You will get 2 fire missions per turn without violating the rules, althogh your opponent (who suffers from artyphobia) will swear you have 2 FO's.
And what about TOT fires? When you have 4 or 5 batteries ALL firing on the same hex at the same time?
No, I have to disagree with the whole Idea of messing around with the arty rules this way. It ain't broke, why fix it? If somebody is having problems dealing with their opponents arty, it is much easier to just play on a bigger map. A 100x100 map has 10,000 hexs or so ( IIRC it's actually 98x98). With that many hexes to hide in , you need hugh amounts of arty to cover all the possible target. Or play without ammo trucks. Reducing the number od shots from infinity to 60 or so makes even the redest red-leg think twice about sending rounds off into the blue. FO's are mobil and go where the arty needs them. I assume that is why ALL Battalion and up headquarters don't have them as part of the TO&E in nSP. If someone wants to buy 30 or 40 Fo's, good for them. I would rather have 1 FO and the rest of the points in other units. It's fine the way it is now.
If the Cammo boys are just looking for something mess with, I want a variable visibility range. Ever been in a sandstor, o a blizzard? One second you cannot see you hand in front of your face the next you can see that Uberpanzer clawing it's way toward you 400 meters away. It's 1600 hours here now. Visibility is about 2 or 3 kilometers, I guess. In half an hour (10 to 15 tutns) that vis will be down to 10 hexex, in an hour it will be down to 8 hexes or so. Why not do this instead of tweaking the arty routines, which at least work, if not as well as before the last tweak.

Weasel · (This post was last modified: 01-07-2007, 09:58 AM by Weasel.)

Grumbler Wrote:Or you could save the e-mail and after the game is finished, look at the roster and see. BTW, Having a .5 request means that the next turn will be a 0.0 (FFE-fire for effect) So it would be posssible for 1 FO to request fire at an off the dime target with a 2.1 delay, then the next turn request fire from a dime with an off set for a 1.4 delay (request A is now at 1.1, then the next turn request fire on a dime with a 1.0 delay (requests A & B are now at .1 and .4).

You can do it whatever way you and your opponent agree too. However, this is not the way I envisioned it. Basically if your FOO is calling in a shoot, that is what he is doing until either the shoot is cancelled, or all rounds land and he doesn't continue the shoot.

Using the above it is very easy to buy one FOO and have him shoot 20 different targets each with one tube of a battery. Just keep adding a +1 delay or plot into a priority target and shift the fire one hex to add a .1 delay. Pretty unrealistic in the world of artillery I know.

As stated, simplicity is the objective. If it is simple, it cannot be mixed up or cheated. So if you have three FOOs and you plot four shoots then you are doing wrong the way I use it. The play testing is being done as I have stated it.

If you don't like the FOO rule, and want to be able to buy one FOO and target one tube into each hex on the map then by all means go ahead, it is your game.

klanx171 · 01-07-2007, 02:27 PM,

Im sorta having to agree with grumbler but for slightly different reasons, mostly coz it would seem hard to police, for example what if your fireing more than one unit onto one hex? how doese that work, and what if the area of fire is not very far apart, also coz this requires watching the replay, maybe more than once and on long turns this can be an eternity.

I do think that artillery needs to be worke on in SP/MBT in genereal, but i think the actuall effects of the arty in MBT seem toned down as compared to SP, which I think is a good thing.

My question from a game designers point of View would be "what is wrong with current artillery in MBT" and "will the current solution to the problem cause more complications in the from of hard to enforce/monitor/maintain solutions?"

again, since MBT strives to be close to reality, what is the reality with FOO, how much can they do.

Vesku · 01-07-2007, 04:44 PM,

It has been very easy to monitor so far. Two FOs and there can be two target areas which receive arty fire and in MBT the fire you need to observe is happening in the end of your own turn, not even possible to watch replays of that because you have already pushed end turn button. I don't say that this rule is as accurate as RL but it is much much better than "one FO, one thousand targets" style.

klanx171 · 01-07-2007, 08:45 PM,

well if you guys are test running it, but what about units with FO ability, and what about good units how many TZ can they handle? or Good FOO?

Vesku · 01-07-2007, 09:31 PM,

klanx171 Wrote:well if you guys are test running it, but what about units with FO ability, and what about good units how many TZ can they handle? or Good FOO?

One FO has one target, no one else calls for fire. We'll see how that works but so far it has improved the game.

klanx171 · 01-07-2007, 10:12 PM,

you mean I cant call down every tube i have on a TZ?

Vesku · 01-07-2007, 10:33 PM,

No mention on tubes per target, you can choose how many fire at it.

Weasel · 01-08-2007, 04:34 AM,

One FOO can call in every gun at his call and every aircraft too, or he call call in a single tube. No restrictions on that.

Very easy to police. When the rounds land you watch. If your opponent says he has three FOOs and fire lands in five different areas (not spread, but five DIFFERENT areas) then you bring it to his attention. I had this happen, it was just a misunderstanding and quickly resolved.

For those who say they don't like it I ask one thing, have you tried it yet? I am testing this with Vesku, Walrus, and Korack ( a total of five games) and everyone likes it so far.

No it isn't true to life. But it does do two things very well: 1. makes the FOO far more important, 2. it solves the problem of artillery being spread across the map on each little bunch of soldiers. Now the shooter has to decide what is most important to fire at. So while some of your force is being suppressed the rest are free for action.